Tax credits demanding debt repaid from 2008

fran1234

Hi there,


I have received a letter from tax credits saying I owe money from 2008. This is the first I have heard of it or been asked to pay it back.
I phoned them today and they say they sent a letter out in 2008 but I did not get it. I moved address around the time so that's probably why.
They are saying if I don't repay it then it goes to a debt collection agency.
Can they do this 7 years after the overpayment?
The guy I spoke to said I cant appeal it as you only have 3 months to appeal.
Any ideas where I stand with this?
The guy tried to explain to me how it was overpaid but I didn't really understand.
Thanks

Laurensalive

I think they can only go back 7 years. And I think 2008/2009 tax year is still in the zone for back re payments.
If I am wrong someone please correct me.

Peter333

fran1234 wrote: »

Hi there,


I have received a letter from tax credits saying I owe money from 2008. This is the first I have heard of it or been asked to pay it back.
I phoned them today and they say they sent a letter out in 2008 but I did not get it. I moved address around the time so that's probably why.
They are saying if I don't repay it then it goes to a debt collection agency.
Can they do this 7 years after the overpayment?
The guy I spoke to said I cant appeal it as you only have 3 months to appeal.
Any ideas where I stand with this?
The guy tried to explain to me how it was overpaid but I didn't really understand.
Thanks

This is actually disgusting to be honest. Tax credits are a massive PITA. Since they started, they have made so many mistakes and messed up so many people's claims and left them in such a mess.

One of my friends and his wife who are on a fairly low joint income gave tax credits their income info last June, and they had an award of about £50 a month. (I think they were on about £15K.)

Then they gave details last month (this year's income was £18K) and they wrote back to them last week and basically said they have been over-paid by about £450. They can't figure out why or why they owe it, and now their award has been reduced to nil so tax credits can get their money back.

It's not the first time they have done this. My friend said he is not going to bother applying next year, as if the joint income is a bit lower this tax year, the tax credits will go up again next year, then if it's higher the following year; it will just be seriously reduced again, and they will have another huge overpayment!

Tax credits and the way it's all worked out is a joke!

I hope you get this sorted, but to be honest, when it comes to anything government related, mere mortals stand no chance!

I wonder why they took seven years to get back to you?!

bigadaj

Surely if someone's income varies then the amount of tax credits is going to vary, that's just the way the system is set up. It's variable and should be logical, otherwise if you earn more or less from one year to the other you'd complain that you weren't paying the same tax as the previous year.

Peter333

I appreciate what people are saying, but the way it's done is STUPID.

For example;

If you earned say £12K in tax year 2012/2013, and they set your tax credits at £50 a month, then this is what you get til the following Spring.

Then if you earn £15K in tax year 2013/2014, you end up with an overpayment, because your income went up. Then they drop your tax credits allowance, and also take even MORE to retrieve the money you owe.

There should be some system in place that gives you say £12 a week tax credits if your wage is £200, and then raises if the wage goes down, and then lowers if the wage goes up. Surely it can't be that bloomin' difficult to implement?!

The mess people have ended up in because of tax credits and their frankly stupid way of doing things is not remotely funny.

mickaveli2001

hold on a minute. Debt? DEBT? lol. Ask them for clarification the word debt first.


Debt is a: sum of money due by contract or express agreement. There is no DEBT! Because they screwed up and overpaid you, does not make you liable. nor does it make the overpayment 'debt' legally speaking.


Keep your responses to HMRC in writing and short and sweet. NEVER call HMRC up. They have trained advisors well rehearsed into getting you to orally accept a bogus demand without you even knowing about it, and when you do, they have it on audio record. It can be something as simple as:


HMRC: Hi Mr Smith, what did you say the debt value was? £500?
Mr Smith: No, £800
HMRC: £800?
Mr Smith: Yes
HMRC: OK, let me look into this for you


The above, in the courts eyes will deem you as having accepted the value. They are sneaky, and they take challenges personally. Always in writing!!!

mickaveli2001

Apologies Fran. Jamp in without reading the entire thing. If this does go to a debt collection agency, then happy days. They have then sold this bogus "debt" on, to a debt collection agency even though it isn't even debt. Never 'appeal'. Appealing is placing the 'authority' in their hands, awaiting for 'them' to decide your fate so to speak. You take the authority, you ask the questions. Even though the guy may have tried to explain the overpayments, you DEMAND this in paperwork to be sent, and by paperwork you do not just mean a flimsy 1 page letter with a value next to a year. You want it broken down in "investigative" chunks. You got to be tough with this (what can only be described as a well organised, legally permitted gang) organisation

NYM

Oh for goodness sake !!

Stop with all this pseudo 'legal' advice...

beecher2

I wouldn't be taking legal advice from someone who thinks the past participle of jump is jamp!

mickaveli2001

NYM wrote: »

Oh for goodness sake !!

Stop with all this pseudo 'legal' advice...

Oh for goodness sake, you stop with your... ??? Well, whatever it is you do? no-knowledge criticisms? I haven't seen any advise from you on this thread or others I've replied to. Debt is a sum of money due by contract or express agreement. You may disagree with that, but that is the 'legal definition', and a definition that would be defined in court and used where it matters most should it get that far. An overpayment, unless deliberate fraud has been committed is HMRC's fault and error. Your beliefs would not have any bearing on the outcome!


blondebubbles - They do sell it on, unless there's a direct partnership but the administration services aren't utilized for free. In regards to appealing, appealing in certain circumstances is fine, but the point is that in appealing with HMRC's 'alleged' debt, you are in fact recognizing that there is a debt, but that you wish to appeal that debt. By all means appeal, but the closest you'll get is being provided with a lenient payment plan to repay a "debt" that probably shouldn't have been repaid in the first place.

Icequeen99

mickaveli2001 wrote: »

Oh for goodness sake, you stop with your... ??? Well, whatever it is you do? no-knowledge criticisms? I haven't seen any advise from you on this thread or others I've replied to. Debt is a sum of money due by contract or express agreement. You may disagree with that, but that is the 'legal definition', and a definition that would be defined in court and used where it matters most should it get that far. An overpayment, unless deliberate fraud has been committed is HMRC's fault and error. Your beliefs would not have any bearing on the outcome!


blondebubbles - They do sell it on, unless there's a direct partnership but the administration services aren't utilized for free. In regards to appealing, appealing in certain circumstances is fine, but the point is that in appealing with HMRC's 'alleged' debt, you are in fact recognizing that there is a debt, but that you wish to appeal that debt. By all means appeal, but the closest you'll get is being provided with a lenient payment plan to repay a "debt" that probably shouldn't have been repaid in the first place.

They debts are not sold on - there is a difference between selling on a debt and engaging a debt collection agency to recover on your behalf. HMRC still own the debt in this case.

Secondly - that is not the legal definition of a tax credit debt. The TCA (Which you probably know inside out) states that HMRC may recover all tax credit overpayments howsoever they are caused - so it doesn't matter who caused the mistake they are recoverable. Tax credit debt is then treated as tax debt for recovery purposes and there is no need to have a contract.

If you can back up your advice with links to legislation that would be more helpful for people.

IQ