please help about coming off jsa or working

HappyMJ

theone999 wrote: »

I still don't understand though, why the business would stipulate to pay via bank transfer only. If what you're saying is they want to avoid paying tax / ni, surely they would just give me cash?

Bank transfer is so much easier. Cash can be lost/stolen. You as a business can disguise payments made as payments made to suppliers. You are the supplier. You don't need to raise an invoice they can self-bill their own invoice from you to them. They are supposed to get your permission to do this but not all companies do that. A self-billed invoice replaces a suppliers invoice so there is no need for you to issue one at all.

Have they requested proof of your right to work in the UK? Your passport? Birth certificate?

theone999

HappyMJ wrote: »

Bank transfer is so much easier. Cash can be lost/stolen. You as a business can disguise payments made as payments made to suppliers. You are the supplier. You don't need to raise an invoice they can self-bill their own invoice from you to them. They are supposed to get your permission to do this but not all companies do that. A self-billed invoice replaces a suppliers invoice so there is no need for you to issue one at all.

Have they requested proof of your right to work in the UK? Your passport? Birth certificate?

No, I haven't been asked to bring any of them to the supposed meeting on Monday.

What I had hoped was just turn up for the first day of "work" and see how things go. Because they said it was for a couple of weeks. But the sudden appointment received in the post today made that not possible.

I think what people may or may not get is that I'm not bothered about cash in hand, I don't like to claim benefits either (but because I can, I'm obviously not an illegal). But I am uncomfortable about being paid and leaving a paper trail while there is still a claim for benefits. If possible, I would rather dissappear into the shadow economy all together rather than be on benefits and doing this whole ridiculous charade (because everyone knows the point of the jobcentre is not to find you a job, I'm doing that in my own bloody time for proper full time/pt work in a field I'm qualified in and not apply for jobs for the sake of it that I have no realistic chances of getting). But the last job I had was PAYE and I am entitled to it and because I haven't found anything else, apart from this so far now I don't know how to get off and explain it to the Jobcentre.

HappyMJ

theone999 wrote: »

No, I haven't been asked to bring any of them to the supposed meeting on Monday.

What I had hoped was just turn up for the first day of "work" and see how things go. Because they said it was for a couple of weeks. But the sudden appointment received in the post today made that not possible.

I think what people may or may not get is that I'm not bothered about cash in hand, I don't like to claim benefits either (but because I can, I'm obviously not an illegal). But I am uncomfortable about being paid and leaving a paper trail while there is still a claim for benefits. If possible, I would rather dissappear into the shadow economy all together rather than be on benefits and doing this whole charade (because everyone knows the point of the jobcentre is not to find you a job, I'm doing that in my own bloody time for proper full time/pt work in a field I'm qualified in and not apply for jobs for the sake of it that I have no realistic chances of getting). But the last job I had was PAYE and I am entitled to it and because I haven't found anything else, apart from this so far now I don't know how to get off and explain it to the Jobcentre.

Working cash in hand..i.e in the black market/shadow economy is illegal.

An employer can pay you cash but must still declare all payments made by whatever method to the HMRC or pay you as a supplier and it's up to you to declare it. Anything else is tax evasion.

If you go to this job without identity papers they shouldn't even give you the chance to do even one minute of paid work. The tens of thousands of visa overstayers/illegal entrants out there would love this kind of opportunity. How much more do you want me to say? Take the job if you want but when you sign on again you can't produce a P45 so will find it difficult getting benefits again. If the job doesn't turn out as expected on Monday you need to give their name and phone number to the DWP. They don't sound as they would or even could corroborate your version of why you missed the jobcentre appointment. If they won't or can't do that you could very well find yourself with a sanction.

You are correct it's not the role of the Jobcentre to find you a job. Their job is simply to confirm you have done enough to satisfy the conditions to be entitled to the payment of JSA.

theone999

HappyMJ wrote: »

Working cash in hand..i.e in the black market/shadow economy is illegal.

An employer can pay you cash but must still declare all payments made by whatever method to the HMRC or pay you as a supplier and it's up to you to declare it. Anything else is tax evasion.

If you go to this job without identity papers they shouldn't even give you the chance to do even one minute of paid work. The tens of thousands of visa overstayers/illegal entrants out there would love this kind of opportunity. How much more do you want me to say? Take the job if you want but when you sign on again you can't produce a P45 so will find it difficult getting benefits again. If the job doesn't turn out as expected on Monday you need to give their name and phone number to the DWP. They don't sound as they would or even could corroborate your version of why you missed the jobcentre appointment. If they won't or can't do that you could very well find yourself with a sanction.

You are correct it's not the role of the Jobcentre to find you a job. Their job is simply to confirm you have done enough to satisfy the conditions to be entitled to the payment of JSA.

Thank you for explaining why a business would want to pay by bank transfer, I did not realise any of that. So it sounds like they want their cake and eat it too? At least a takeaway owner is more honest in the sense they pay cash and will go down together. I don't know how they expect illegals to have bank accounts anyway.

HappyMJ

theone999 wrote: »

Thank you for explaining why a business would want to pay by bank transfer, I did not realise any of that. So it sounds like they want their cake and eat it too? At least a takeaway owner is more honest in the sense they pay cash and will go down together. I don't know how they expect illegals to have bank accounts anyway.

Visa overstayers are what the media call illegal immigrants...they once had a valid visa to enter the UK. They can open a bank account with that visa and it's still open. Not all illegal immigrants are as poor as you think they might be....quite a few of them they have plenty of cash stashed away.

Illegal entrants on the other hand make the news headlines but there really isn't that many of them that actually make it across the water or enter by using false documents. They'll just borrow someone else's bank details to get paid.

Most of what the media refer to as illegal immigrants actually entered the UK legally for tourism, study or work and have now overstayed their welcome.

Mersey_2

HappyMJ wrote: »

If they don't declare it then you are responsible for your national insurance contributions. Not declared income would scare me off. You will/could also be responsible for the tax. I really do hope you reconsider. If you did pay your own NI Class 3 contributions they will cost you £14.10 a week. Is the work now worth doing?

This isn't casual labour...it's slave labour and tax evasion.

edit: if they decide they don't need your "services" any more you will not get a P45...try claiming benefits without a P45. It's difficult.

Whilst I agree that the job offer remains a bit suspect, without knowing more, it's a bit unfair to scare the OP re NI Conts.


Class 3 are voluntary contributions he would not need to make.


Even the Class 2 self-employed Conts he may need to make are only £2.80 per week. Plus not payable until his self assessment in Jan 2017. He would probably be exempt completely anyway, as a low earner.

Also, you can claim JSA without a P45.