please help about coming off jsa or working

theone999

I've been told literally today that I have an appointment on Monday at the Jobcentre.

But at the same time I'm supposed to be go somewhere for a "job" from an advert I contacted off Gumtree that may run for a few weeks but I don't know cos I'm supposed to meet up for the first time on Monday as well.

It's not cash in hand, I asked, it has to be by bank transfer, presumably they pay it as an "expense". But I'm not "employed" by them because it's temporary promotion thing I think. Neither did they say I have to be self employed. I had a look and I can't be self employed because I don't have a business and I don't invoice people. They also said they don't declare it for me, whatever that means.

What should I do? I only know about this today on the weekend and I can't get in contact with anyone. Do I have to come off JSA? If so, how am I supposed to explain why? If I stay on, do I now have to show bank statements to the jobcentre because there almost certainly won't be a payslip? What am I going to say if I have to sign on again? Should I just say I'm going on vacation and so can't look for a job and go off JSA? Or should I not bother turning up to "work" and get "fired" before I even "started" because I can't explain this to the jobcentre? There is another option of not turning up having claim auto closed in 5 working days but because I've been sanctioned before, I'll be in the !!!!!! if I have to sign on again, a certainty in a few weeks time if not less.

If I sound very confused, it's because no choice is ever a good choice when you're in the system.

rogerblack

How much would this earn?
You can in principle claim JSA up to 16h/week work.

This is separate to the issue of if you're employed or not.
Not wanting to miss work is an acceptable reason to miss your interview.
Turning down work you have been offered would in principle result in JSA sanctions.

HappyMJ

Personally, don't bother with the job. Everything you've said sounds really bad.

You won't be employed by them? You have to be either employed or self employed. If you're going down the self employment even for just 1 day of work then you must register as self employed with the HMRC, send annual tax returns, have insurance to cover your business etc...I don't think you'll be wanting that so you must be employed which means they have to run a payroll deducting tax and national insurance.

Run.....you can't get fired from a job that is not genuine. Go to the jobcentre on Monday.

theone999

HappyMJ wrote: »

Personally, don't bother with the job. Everything you've said sounds really bad.

You won't be employed by them? You have to be either employed or self employed. If you're going down the self employment even for just 1 day of work then you must register as self employed with the HMRC, send annual tax returns, have insurance to cover your business etc...I don't think you'll be wanting that so you must be employed which means they have to run a payroll deducting tax and national insurance.

Run.....you can't get fired from a job that is not genuine. Go to the jobcentre on Monday.

Well, it's a genuine thing by actually a very well known local business. I rang up today but the person of contact wasn't at work.

I don't doubt I'll get some money, but I'm at a loss how to explain this. I'm so confused as to why the business would insist on doing this and not just pay cash. It's not like they're paying a fiver an hr either, they match the min wage.

theone999

rogerblack wrote: »

How much would this earn?
You can in principle claim JSA up to 16h/week work.

This is separate to the issue of if you're employed or not.
Not wanting to miss work is an acceptable reason to miss your interview.
Turning down work you have been offered would in principle result in JSA sanctions.

But there is work. And there is "work". Is there not?

If I wasn't claiming anything, I wouldn't bat an eyelid and just do it. But because I'm on the system, how do I explain it? How do I get out without setting myself up for something bad sometime down the line?

HappyMJ

theone999 wrote: »

Well, it's a genuine thing by actually a very well known local business. Like I mean properly posh. I rang up today but the person of contact wasn't at work.

I don't doubt I'll get some money, but I'm at a loss how to explain this. I'm so confused as to why the business would insist on doing this and not just pay cash. It's not like they're paying a fiver an hr either, they match the min wage.

Of course they do but they aren't paying taxes so are saving money. An employer has a responsibility to pay Employers National Insurance on employees wages. It's another 13.8% on earnings over £156 a week. If they are avoiding that by saying to you that you are self employed then they can pay you without having to pay the HMRC. It's tax avoidance.

You then need to register as self employed and pay Class 2 and Class 4 contributions and fill out a self assessment as well as holding an insurance policy to cover third party risks.

theone999

HappyMJ wrote: »

Of course they do but they aren't paying taxes so are saving money. An employer has a responsibility to pay Employers National Insurance on employees wages. It's another 13.8% on earnings over £156 a week. If they are avoiding that by saying to you that you are self employed then they can pay you without having to pay the HMRC. It's tax avoidance.

You then need to register as self employed and pay Class 2 and Class 4 contributions and fill out a self assessment as well as holding an insurance policy to cover third party risks.

They haven't said anything to me about self employment. When I asked about how it was paid. They said bank transfer only but then immediately and independently said they would not declare it either.

I'm marginally better off doing that than claim JSA, though poorer in time.

It would appear to be a case of don't ask don't tell? It's sad this is what casualised labour looks like.

GirlFromMars_2

theone999 wrote: »

They haven't said anything to me about self employment. When I asked about how it was paid. They said bank transfer only but then immediately and independently said they would not declare it either.

I'm marginally better off doing that than claim JSA, though poorer in time.

It would appear to be a case of don't ask don't tell? It's sad this is what casualised labour looks like.

It's self employed whether you're paid, cash, by bank transfer or in gold & diamonds.

This is not a job. Walk away.

Mersey_2

You should receive more notice than that of any JSA appointment, so they'd have a problem attempting to enforce a sanction.


If payment is by bank transfer you could show JCP that if they asked. This is only really relevant if you wish to continue claiming, ie as others have said if you're only working , 16 hours per week.


You don't need to give a reason for signing off, but it's easier if you do.

HappyMJ

theone999 wrote: »

They haven't said anything to me about self employment. When I asked about how it was paid. They said bank transfer only but then immediately and independently said they would not declare it either.

I'm marginally better off doing that than claim JSA, though poorer in time.

It would appear to be a case of don't ask don't tell? It's sad this is what casualised labour looks like.

If they don't declare it then you are responsible for your national insurance contributions. Not declared income would scare me off. You will/could also be responsible for the tax. I really do hope you reconsider. If you did pay your own NI Class 3 contributions they will cost you £14.10 a week. Is the work now worth doing?

This isn't casual labour...it's slave labour and tax evasion.

edit: if they decide they don't need your "services" any more you will not get a P45...try claiming benefits without a P45. It's difficult.

theone999

HappyMJ wrote: »

If they don't declare it then you are responsible for your national insurance contributions. Not declared income would scare me off. You will/could also be responsible for the tax. I really do hope you reconsider. If you did pay your own NI Class 3 contributions they will cost you £14.10 a week. Is the work now worth doing?

This isn't casual labour...it's slave labour and tax evasion.

edit: if they decide they don't need your "services" any more you will not get a P45...try claiming benefits without a P45. It's difficult.

I still don't understand though, why the business would stipulate to pay via bank transfer only. If what you're saying is they want to avoid paying tax / ni, surely they would just give me cash?