Paypal negative balance

nic147

Evening all, come across this forum whilst searching for advice on google. So here is my problem.

A few weeks ago I sold a brand new Samsung S6 on gumtree for £450. The buyer text me saying he will pay PayPal costs and postage if I could get the phone sent off the same day. So I agreed, and sure enough £450 appeared in my account. He also asked if I could send it to a different address as he was away from home, so again, I agreed.
I packaged the phone up the same day and sent it to the address he requested special delivery with tracking and guaranteed next day delivery.
Meanwhile the buyer was texting me asking if I had sent it, so I replied that I had sent it along with the tracking number.

So I thought that was that and removed the money from my PayPal into my bank account.

A few days later, I received an email from PayPal saying that the buyer had opened a case against me, claiming that he had not received the phone. So I simply checked the royal mail tracking site and found that the item had been signed for at the address he requested. So I messaged the buyer through PayPal saying about the tracking number and the fact that it had been signed for. But he was claiming that I supplied a fake tracking number.
He then continued to escalate into a full claim where PayPal decides the outcome. So I thought how could I lose! So I supplied PayPal with the tracking number, screen shots from our whole text conversation and an explanation as to what had happened.

I then eagerly awaited an email from PayPal, and to my shock, they went his way and my balance was put into negative. So I phoned straight away to get an explanation as to how they come to that outcome. They claimed on the phone that because I did not send it to the buyers confirmed address there is nothing they could do. So I explained to the lady on the phone the whole story and she agreed that I had been scammed and the buyer now has a brand new phone and the money back. But still, they claim there is nothing they can do and I have to pay the money back.

Now surely, the fact that the lady on the phone can see that I had been scammed, there must be something they could do!
I have "lost" my debit card since, so it is no longer linked to PayPal so there is no way that they can get any money out of my account.

Any advice on what I could do next would be greatly appreciated!
(Sorry for the long post)

soolin

Unfortunately this is a very common scam, so common that they have to try it on thousands of people a day just to get one bite.

Paypal have followed their own rules (seller protection is covered in the sticky postage thread on this forum). basically if you had read the highlighted info against the payment it would have bene clear that you are only covered if you send it to the paypal address that shows as OK to send to.

As for what to do now, paypal will huff and puff and threaten you with debt collectors, as long as you stay calm and perhaps update yourself on what powers debt collecting agencies have they cannot force you to give the money back. Obviously your paypal account is now dead, and any at all you try and open in the future will go the same way (not immediately, but usually as soon as you have built up a balance). Likewise anyone associated with you, as in living in the same house, or sharing a PC or IP address is also at risk of losing their paypal account.

Paypal are unlikely to go beyond the debt collector stage, so although you may well be hassled for a few months that is about it.

You do of course also have the address of the scammer- so you can work with that. Maybe send a letter before action explaining you will be taking legal steps to recover your funds - it is something worth considering. Also it never hurts to report this to auction fraud (I'm not sure that is the right name, someone will no doubt post a link for you).

soolin

Just out of interest, this is a cut and paste from a paypal payment I have just received:




Thanks for using PayPal. You can now send any items. To see all the transaction details, log in to your PayPal account.

It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.

This item is eligible for Seller Protection.
Don't forget to:
Send the item to the delivery address below within 7 days.
Please note: items delivered in person or to a different address are not covered by Seller Protection.
Use a trackable proof of delivery.
Find out more about Seller Protection

RFW

As Soolin says sending to the different address is a no-no for Paypal. For all they know the seller is the scammer and the delivery address is their best mate.

Despite what the police may tell you on an initial contact, you have been the victim of a crime. The delivery address and signature will be evidence. Go to the Police, if they say it's a civil matter, write to your chief constable and let him know that his officers seem unwilling to investigate fraud. There should be a big enough trail for the police to investigate, there's the money paid in to Paypal, the email addresses, the two addresses and the names involved. It may be easy enough to commit this scam, it is still a serious offence and the offenders should be prosecuted.

Whilst letter before action and going to court may be an option, if this is a serial criminal then the chances of getting any money from them are as near to zero as you can get.

pinkshoes

Google the address you sent it to, and see if you can find a name match on 192.com or a phone number. This would at least verify if the person lived there to make it worth taking them to court.

Report it to the police.

Ultimately you didn't follow Paypal rules.

nic147

Thanks for the replies.
I wasn't aware of the confirmed address business (should have read the T's & C's, I know!)
What annoyed me is the fact that Paypal can see that I have been scammed, but will not do anything about it.

I have reported the case to the police and will update paypal with a crime refernce number.
Will update with whatever comes next

Brooker_Dave

RFW wrote: »

Despite what the police may tell you on an initial contact, you have been the victim of a crime.

Has he?

OP's been paid, paypal are down £450, but that's because of their own actions, and they're overseas, so what are the police supposed to investigate?

Brooker_Dave

soolin wrote: »

Likewise anyone associated with you, as in living in the same house, or sharing a PC or IP address is also at risk of losing their paypal account.

When I got booted off ebay for having 98.3 positive feedback, my wife, who only ever used ebay to buy stuff, got accused of being me and kicked off ebay too (into the welcoming hands of Amazon no less).

However, when my paypal account ended up £600 in the red due to xmas day chargebacks, and after I told them where to stick their paypal account after some crazy Irish woman yelled down the phone at me 2 days later claiming they had a CCJ without needed to use a court, my wifes paypal account was untouched, and is fine to this day.

I would have thought OP will not be able to use ebay again, but others living his address won't be hounded off paypal, they might see their ebay accounts nuked though.

RFW

Brooker_Dave wrote: »

Has he?

OP's been paid, paypal are down £450, but that's because of their own actions

Really? What actions are these?

You don't think that someone receiving an item and then claiming they haven't is a crime?

I do know you like banging on about Paypal being "overseas" (within the EU would probably suffice), I don't see the relevance. Can you only commit crimes against people in the same country? Can I go shoplifting in Ikea? They're based in Sweden so they can't touch me, is that right Dave? I'll get the van and fill it up with furniture:D

Brooker_Dave

RFW wrote: »

Really? What actions are these?

Reversing the transaction.

harryfrombarry_2

But it was the bank who reversed the transaction, via a chargeback, not PayPal.