1 penny change from shops

jrtfan

jrtfan wrote: »

No, he isn't quite confident enough yet to [STRIKE]contradict[/STRIKE] challenge [STRIKE](if that's the appropriate word)[/STRIKE] something an adult has done (unless they're family, that is!). We have been trying to encourage him to ask for it politely.

Pollycat wrote:

If he knows the value of money, he should know that he's not been given enough change.

But every adult who accepts this short-changing is enabling these shopkeepers to continue doing it.

Hi Pollycat,

Absolutely, I agree with you 100% and I have actually taken it up with our local shopkeeper today, in a friendly way but one which I trust will be taken on board. No need to fall out. But my lad needs an example to follow, so hey ho. (The penny has gone into my son's change jar, btw!)

WRT teaching him the value of money, hopefully what we've been doing with him is doing the trick, he must earn his pocket money by completing chores around the home (nothing hazardous, of course, but he does have to do some of the more yucky things such as picking up after the dogs!). He can select from a list of suitable jobs pinned to the board, up to 5 each day during term-time and unlimited during school holidays. Then for each one he completes, he's 'paid' 30p. We suspect this might explain why he's felt wronged by being short-changed! Anyway, we'll see what happens from today.

Spendless

jrtfan wrote: »

Hi Pollycat,

Absolutely, I agree with you 100% and I have actually taken it up with our local shopkeeper today, in a friendly way but one which I trust will be taken on board. No need to fall out. But my lad needs an example to follow, so hey ho. (The penny has gone into my son's change jar, btw!)

Good. :T What did they say about keeping the extra penny? My 12yo wouldn't feel comfortable either about questioning an adult, whereas my 15yo it would depend on what mood my 15yo was in!

jrtfan

They apologised and said that sometimes they run out of the small change towards the end of the day. It's an excuse, they knew it and so did I (he's been short-changed there at all different hours of the day!) but we just left things unspoken on both sides and I'll accompany him there on his next few visits, just to make a point of checking his change before he leaves the shop. It can be done in a friendly way I'm sure and still get across the message that I'm watching them!

Yes, 12 is an awkward age isn't it? Not quite yet sure enough of themselves to make a stand! I've only the one, so it will be interesting to see what he is like when he reaches 15!

General_Grant

Hedgehog99 wrote: »

I once had the exact change for a train fare, but the ticket machine spat out my 1p & 2p coins. It annoys me when they do that - surely it's no problem for a machine to count coins? Anyway, I had to go and pay at the ticket office instead and, despite my coppers being less than 20p (the legal amount they must accept), he said something along the lines of not using him to dump my unwanted small change. Well, set up you machine to take them then.

It's the thin edge of the wedge - more and more machines refusing perfectly legal tender.

jackyann wrote: »

I do know that there is some sort of limits on "legal tender" and you can look it up on the Royal Mint website. It's to stop people paying, say £100 debt in 1p coins. So someone can refuse to accept more than 20p worth of 1p coins, or £5 worth of 5p coins.
However, I'm not sure how it applies to giving change.

Please note (from the Royal Mint website - http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-guidelines):

Legal tender has a very narrow and technical meaning in the settlement of debts. It means that a debtor cannot successfully be sued for non-payment if he pays into court in legal tender. It does not mean that any ordinary transaction has to take place in legal tender or only within the amount denominated by the legislation. Both parties are free to agree to accept any form of payment whether legal tender or otherwise according to their wishes. In order to comply with the very strict rules governing an actual legal tender it is necessary, for example, actually to offer the exact amount due because no change can be demanded.

"Legal tender" is not relevant to buying something in a shop or a ticket for travel.

Spendless

jrtfan wrote: »

They apologised and said that sometimes they run out of the small change towards the end of the day. It's an excuse, they knew it and so did I (he's been short-changed there at all different hours of the day!) but we just left things unspoken on both sides and I'll accompany him there on his next few visits, just to make a point of checking his change before he leaves the shop. It can be done in a friendly way I'm sure and still get across the message that I'm watching them!

Definatley sounds like an excuse to me too. They'd been caught out short-changing and needed to 'pretend' their was exhonaurating circumstances. If they really get short of small change they could take a tip out of the cheaper big stores books and ask as many of their customers if they have the change eg if something is £1.04 ask if they have the 4p instead of handing over a larger coin requiring them to give change.

I loved my child being 15, said no-one ever, is the best I can sum up!!!

jrtfan

Yes, they certainly could! In fact many of them used to, until recently. I think what has bugged me about this one particular shop more than the others involved, is that it once belonged to the parents of a lady I've been friends with since both of us were 4 years old. Her family founded the business back in the '60s and sold it about 20 years ago, when the parents retired. So I gleaned a good picture of how successful it was while I was growing up. Every child attending the local Infant, Primary and Secondary Schools here have to pass that shop on their way to and from school each day. The Seniors, in particular, are always milling around the entrance to it in the morning and the afternoon. Then, there is a sizeable community of retired people living in warden-assisted housing on the opposite side of the road; this shop is very handy for them to use when they need bits and pieces. Rather than thinking in terms of having to buy 1000 items in order to recoup £10 in change, I picture it as having to serve 1000 customers in order to attain the £10 in change - and when footfall during term-time is taken into consideration, 1000 customers can be achieved very quickly indeed.

Re 15-year-olds - I was afraid you might say something like that!

jrtfan

General_Grant wrote: »

Please note (from the Royal Mint website - http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-guidelines):


"Legal tender" is not relevant to buying something in a shop or a ticket for travel.

Thank you, that's very interesting. Unfortunately I couldn't access via the link you supplied (kept giving me an error?) but from what I read on your post, "no change can be demanded" wouldn't then necessarily apply to ordinary retailers?

Although, I note the address in the link ends with 'legal tender guidelines' so it would be necessary to look at the relevant legislation I guess, in order to be certain on this point.