China to set new gold price

Killerseven

http://www.examiner.com/article/china-announces-they-will-be-setting-new-gold-price-by-end-of-year

IMO- There will probably be a significant pop as China sets whatever their initial physical spot becomes. But I believe that price will be under valued by the world's "wanters" of physical gold.
Then you will see a series of stair-step increases.

Wondering what would be the advantage/disadvantage/outcome, if any, of raising the price suddenly in one lump sum versus a slow and inexorable price rise, say $50 a day for several months?
The last bit of my link is so intriguing ......

The most interesting thing that will occur from this gold pricing policy is how London and the Comex will deal with the metal should China suddenly set the price far above the current paper spot. If the West still has alot of physical gold in their reserves, they can make a large amount of money arbitraging their buy price with China's sell price. However, it appears for the most part that the amount of gold remaining in London and Comex vaults is limited, and they will be unable to stop the Far Eastern market from determining the physical price should they decide to raise it to much higher levels.

The gold markets in the West have been drained for some time, and are now simply derivatives markets that are protected by London's ability to price gold much lower than supply and demand dictates. And since the Comex has not actually delivered any metals for more than two years despite them being a futures delivery market, the potential that China's move to take over physical gold pricing within the next six months could very easily cause a derivatives meltdown, and drive the price of gold even higher than the SGE might set it at.

-end.



Also considering the Japanese can now make gold from silver through blasting off the electrons from the silver atom and they really can make gold one atom at a time from silver atoms. Still worth it while the ratio is 75:1. But the Japanese are always finding better ways of doing things.

Killerseven

Kitco just did a video where Daniela interviewed the guy who said Mitsubishi can make gold from silver and copper in a huge nuclear microwave.

Transmutation it seems can only make very similar metals into other chemically very similar metals. Platinum and Palladium are also chemically very simialr but why use them when copper and silver are so much cheaper.

You can only make gold from silver or copper, or platinum or palladium, the other two metals that are the most similar.

It's been a couple of years now since it was first done and now they have refined the process.

Mitsubishi (a Japanese multinational conglomerate comprising a range of autonomous businesses which share the Mitsubishi brand, trademark and legacy) hopes to go beyond just low energy nuclear reactions to low energy nuclear transmutations. Or alchemy to say it another way.

"These transmutations will be an energy source that will be portable, will produce rare earth materials, and will have the capacity to transmutate radioactive waste. They've changed the acronym from LENR to LENT. And, unlike competitors such as Rossi and Defkalion, they plan on using resources other than palladium, platinum and nickel." (cleantechauthority.com/defkalion-announces-lenr-date-mitsubishi-enters-lenr-market/)

Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) using nickel and hydrogen is a clean, very very cheap, and super abundant energy technology, but can it also be used for transmutation? Nuclear transmutation is the conversion of one chemical element into another. Already there have been proven silver and copper transmutation into gold experiments. These are on record and in the public domain.

"Artificial transmutation may occur in machinery that has enough energy to cause changes in the nuclear structure of the elements. Machines that can cause artificial transmutation include particle accelerators and tokamak reactors. Conventional fission power reactors also cause artificial transmutation, not from the power of the machine, but by exposing elements to neutrons produced by a fission from an artificially produced nuclear chain reaction. Artificial nuclear transmutation has been considered as a possible mechanism for reducing the volume and hazard of radioactive waste." (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_transmutation)

In February 2011 scientists were given access to a sample of pure nickel powder which had been used in a LENR reactor for 2.5 months. Their analysis showed that the powder contained several other substances, mainly 10 percent copper and 11 percent iron. (https://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3144827.ece)

According to Robert Godes LENR is not a nickel-hydrogen fusion reaction. Nickel is merely a catalyst, and it is the hydrogen that yields heat.

"A tiny amount of hydrogen protons are converted into neutrons. These newly produced neutrons are soon captured by hydrogen ions or other atoms in a metallic (e.g. nickel) lattice near to where the hydrogen ions were converted to neutrons. The captured neutrons generate heat because the new atoms that are one neutron heavier shed excess binding energy as heat to the lattice, resulting in a dramatically clean, low-cost, hi-quality heat output."

"...Evidence suggests this reaction involves the synthesis of neutrons, which accumulate on hydrogen dissolved in a matrix (lattice), which progresses to deuterium, then tritium and on to quadrium that decays to helium." (oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/New-LENR-Machine-is-the-Best-Yet.html)

To summarize, it is a fact that conventional fission power reactors cause artificial transmutation by exposing elements to neutrons. Furthermore, according to Godes, the LENR Ni-H reaction occurs when hydrogen protons are converted into neutrons and captured by hydrogen ions or other atoms in the nickel lattice. Finally, evidence for LENR transmutation is the sample of nickel powder used in a LENR reactor for several months which showed several other substances, including copper and iron.

Can Mitsubishi discover the formula for the practical transmutation of metals, fulfilling the dream of mankind since the Middle Ages? We already know for certain that LENR transmutes silver and copper into gold so alchemy suddenly doesn't seem so speculative anymore.

What will happen to the price of gold when the process is able to turn large amounts of copper and silver into gold? This is the question that has many gold holders shaking in their boots. All eyes on Mitsubishi engineering to see what happens next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai72u8rvXfU

markj113

I think you need to do a lot more reading around China setting gold prices.

Also with regards turning silver/copper in to gold I think you need to read up on the amount of energy and costs involved in the process. It is not financially viable at this time.

You can also get gold from asteroid mining, sea water processing, human excrement processing + many other sources. Doesn't make it cheaper or easier than just mining it out of the ground.

kidmugsy

Killerseven wrote: »

Also considering the Japanese can now make gold from silver through blasting off the electrons from the silver atom

Blasting off electrons from a silver atom wouldn't give you gold, it would just give you a silver ion.

To transmute it into gold you need to deal with the protons.

redux

kidmugsy wrote: »

Blasting off electrons from a silver atom wouldn't give you gold, it would just give you a silver ion.

To transmute it into gold you need to deal with the protons.

Yes. People have been hoping for more than 50 years to develop nuclear fusion as a cheap power source, and now it sounds like suddenly someone has turned it into alchemy instead.

Killerseven

markj113 wrote: »

with regards turning silver/copper in to gold I think you need to read up on the amount of energy and costs involved in the process. It is not financially viable at this time.
.

Yes it's costs more at the moment, but the point it's possible, costs will come down and gold price could be more than it costs, which would make not as rare anymore, what would happen to the price then?

masonic

Wow, this is madder than anything I've seen the gold bugs come up with. Have you been experimenting with heavy metals yourself by any chance?

bowlhead99

Gold has 3 main uses:

- it looks nice and shiny and is malleable so people like to make art/jewellery out of it and keep those things or give those things to others;

- it has held that property for a long time and was formerly used for currency, so people hold it speculatively in the hope that it will hedge against inflation and can at some point be sold to another person for more in real terms / fiat currency than they paid;

- it has some industrial uses accounting for a pretty small portion of the gold that currently exists or is mined annually.

Based on the laws of physics / chemistry, if you have infinite amounts of free energy you can probably create a pile of gold from something else. How else would our existing piles of gold have come to exist?

So, it stands to reason, if you can create large amounts of free or incredibly cheap energy, and build some technological development that harnesses the free energy, then you can create gold.

When gold can be made 'from scratch' in as much quantity as we like:

-it will still be pretty and can still be used for jewellery and art, albeit it may not be as desirable when anyone can pick up the raw material for low cost

-its value to speculators will plummet because it ceases to be a limited resource and it has a known recipe and cost

-it will still have some industrial uses (although by the time we get to the point we have unlimited free energy, we may well have found a new element or invented a good cheap alloy of something else with better industrial properties).

So, if you are considering gold as a speculative investment, you should be aware that it will 'lose its lustre' once we have infinite free energy. Probably there are also other investments that would perform poorly once someone has infinite free energy, as it is something of a game-changer.

I don't think the fact that 'the Japanese are always finding better ways of doing things' is something that would cause the typical speculator to now immediately sell gold stockpiles to buy Japanese industrial firms. However, comparing a block of inert metal which does not produce income and costs money to store, with a portfolio of equities in technology businesses... I think an investment in businesses would be a better long term use of funds.

Plus

There's about 0.1 million million million million atoms in an ounce of gold. So if they're doing it one at a time it'll take an awfully long while. Instead of all that, paying $1200 for someone to dig that ounce out of the ground sounds like a pretty good deal.

masonic

Plus wrote: »

There's about 0.1 million million million million atoms in an ounce of gold. So if they're doing it one at a time it'll take an awfully long while. Instead of all that, paying $1200 for someone to dig that ounce out of the ground sounds like a pretty good deal.

They probably would have to do it a few atoms at a time too, because when the nucleosynthesis process gets to gold, the next fusion is energetically more favourable, so they will need some way to remove the gold atoms as they are formed so that they don't destroy those precious atoms under the conditions of the reaction. Otherwise, they could end up being the first inverse-alchemists and turning their gold into lead. Of course, the other way to do it is by colliding two neutron stars in a supernova explosion, but we seem quite some way off getting a foothold in interstellar space.

bowlhead99

masonic wrote: »

Of course, the other way to do it is by colliding two neutron stars in a supernova explosion, but we seem quite some way off getting a foothold in interstellar space.

But the Japanese are always finding better ways of doing things, so I expect all eyes are on Mitsubishi.