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The problem with socialism
Comments
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Greece actually did run a 'primary surplus in 2013 and 2014. So far this year (i.e. under Syriza) it has formally run a primary surplus of €1 billion, but only by virtue of not paying suppliers. So things have got worse for Greece.
They don't really have any choice. Once you run out of money, you run out of money.
That is not an issue in terms of running a primary surplus. Or not, as the case may be. Perhaps you should check the defintion.
An interesting opinion. I fear that events are rapidly overtaking you.
Thanks for the considered reply. Just a couple of points here. Firstly, I'm well aware that the debts are irrelevant in terms of running a primary surplus. My point was that in terms of resolving the wider issue of Greece's position, the fact that principle debt is unsustainable will at some point need to be tackled. The Eurogroup / IMF seem to me to be in denial of this reality.
And in terms of events rapidly overtaking me (and most others forthat matter), I think you're sadly right. Unless something very unexpected (even by the standards of this saga!) happens over the next few days, it does seem as though this situation will blow up. I wish the Greek people all the best in dealing with the troubles to come, and hope that Karma eventually catches up with those leading the institutions (both within Greece and outside) who have caused this mess.0 -
How does that work? Surely Greece doesn't use cash accounting.....
All I can say is that my presumption is that it does; at least from the point of view of working out the primary surplus number.
Had the government not decided to freeze all payments in a bid to secure cash for the timely payment of salaries and pensions, the primary budget balance would have shown a deficit of 1 billion euros, against the 1.5-billion-euro primary surplus it showed in the January-May period, according to the official data.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_25/06/2015_551526
Or see this statement from the Bank of Greece;
http://www.bankofgreece.gr/BoGAttachments/17.11.2014%20Central%20government%20net%20borrowing%20requirement%20on%20a%20cash%20basis_January-October%202014%20-%20Table.pdf0 -
The problem with socialism is that you always run out of other people's money.
The problem with socialism and capitalism is that when people have access to wealth without consequences you always run out of other people's money.
When oligarchs have billions to fritter away on status symbols you also run out of money to feed and house the poor. I seem to recall there was a recent banking crash after people borrowed money they couldn't afford, but there weren't any commies forcing them to borrow it, just peer pressure on them to keep up with the Jones's in a consumer society.0 -
....When oligarchs have billions to fritter away on status symbols you also run out of money to feed and house the poor. I seem to recall there was a recent banking crash after people borrowed money they couldn't afford, but there weren't any commies forcing them to borrow it, just peer pressure on them to keep up with the Jones's in a consumer society.
Of course, the people who borrowed money they couldn't afford were not exactly 'oligarchs'. There is a reason why the word 'subprime' suddenly became popular.:)0 -
The problem with socialism and capitalism is that when people have access to wealth without consequences you always run out of other people's money.
When oligarchs have billions to fritter away on status symbols you also run out of money to feed and house the poor.
Actually, when oligarchs fritter away billions, that's a good thing. This is exactly what we want to happen, rather than hoarding the cash.0 -
Actually, when oligarchs fritter away billions, that's a good thing. This is exactly what we want to happen, rather than hoarding the cash.
Generally speaking it's the poor that make a lot of the things the rich fritter their money away on. The alone VAT on a new yacht must be a bob or two!0 -
Generally speaking it's the poor that make a lot of the things the rich fritter their money away on. ...
I always remember the Crewe and Nantwich by-election of 2008, when the Labour Party made such fun of the Conservative candidate as a rich 'Tory Toff' driving around in a Bentley. Until that is, the good citizens of Crewe pointed out that Bentleys are actually manufactured in Crewe.
One man's status symbol is another man's livelihood....The alone VAT on a new yacht must be a bob or two!
Good grief man, no! If you are an oligarch (I presume that is slang for 'somebody with a lot of money') and are in a position to buy some 100ft superyacht with a £100 m plus price tag, you don't pay VAT on top. You buy it through a CI charter company so it counts as an export. It's not liket he boat's gonna be spending any time in British waters.:)0 -
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