Boundaries and the contents of them.

silvercar

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

But if the shop really was hers - then surely somewhere would be evidence she had bought it?

If she cant produce evidence of having bought it and being genuine owner of it then there is only one other possibility on the table (ie she's trying to steal it by adverse possession and the question is as to whether she has succeeded in doing so or no).

Part of her evidence would be that she has been allowed to continue to "own" the shop, with no payment of rent etc for the last XX years.

Sometimes registration gets delayed because deeds need re-writing. So at some point the first owner of the shop as a separate entity may have had to wait for your deeds to be split into 2 deeds. If there was a further delay for whatever reason then events may have taken over and it never was registered properly.

I still think the current owner of the shop should have kept some evidence of the sale.

matttye

If she has paid something for it when she moved in or paid mortgage payments since she got it, I think she could have an implied trust even if it is actually your land.

You really need to follow your solicitor's advice. No one on here will be able to help you in any useful fashion.

dan91

Thanks for everyone's replies we do intent to wait and see how it goes once the solicitor contacts her.

silvercar wrote: »

Part of her evidence would be that she has been allowed to continue to "own" the shop, with no payment of rent etc for the last XX years.

Sometimes registration gets delayed because deeds need re-writing. So at some point the first owner of the shop as a separate entity may have had to wait for your deeds to be split into 2 deeds. If there was a further delay for whatever reason then events may have taken over and it never was registered properly.

I still think the current owner of the shop should have kept some evidence of the sale.

I understand what your saying however your going through the assumption of who ever sold it her had the right to sell it her.

What if we are looking at the person who sold it to her did not have the right to sell it her and her deed is "fake" which is why it was never registered?

I find all this confusing, how someone can own it even though its on your freehold absolute title deed. If we apply this to the road situation, we could claim the unadopted road as we have parked on it for 26 years without ever being told by the owner to move. The road is in a terrible state and never been repaired.

silvercar

What if we are looking at the person who sold it to her did not have the right to sell it her and her deed is "fake" which is why it was never registered?

I admit I never thought of that. I went as far as thinking her solicitor may have failed her in not registering the ownership, not as far as thinking that she bought it from a seller who didn't have the right to sell.

I find all this confusing, how someone can own it even though its on your freehold absolute title deed.

If they have a leasehold granted that hasn't been registered.

If we apply this to the road situation, we could claim the unadopted road as we have parked on it for 26 years without ever being told by the owner to move.

Not the same as unadopted roads are not owned by anyone, it is merely that the council hasn't adopted them, generally because they don't want the responsibility or because they refuse to adopt until they are of a satisfactory standard (in respect or repair/ width etc). An unadopted road is not be a private road.

dan91

@silvercar thanks for your reply. I guess in this case its going to be decided how she responds to the solicitors letter.

1) She has known for a while she does not really own it and will just move out / hand over keys as its worthless to her as she cannot sell or rent it out.
2) She has known but will kick up a bit of a fuss before moving out.
3) She does not know and it will be a legal battle.

As for our deed's it seems the originals do not exist anymore. The mortgage is paid off now and when we finished paying it we where told they do not have the deeds they are with or solicitor and our solicitor says they sent them back. Meaning all we have to go on is what is on the land registry site. Which doesn't reference any other documents or have any attachments or constraints except for right to light ext. and references the Title plan drawing being in red.

I am actually generally interested in what happened as i find it very strange how this even come to be. As i said above we only found out because we where investigating the road.

However the shop seems to have been built at the same time as the house as the bricks continue from the house into the shop and overlap / key'd in each other. The house was built in 1910/1920 but we only know what the shop was back to the 60's where it was a fruit and veg shop. However we do not know if that was the owner of the house running it. Since then a man had a record shop and now the lady that is their now.

As our house is where an old railway line / station used to be we have thought that when it was built perhaps it was built for someone who worked at the railway station and they had the building as an office originally or for the signal man ext. However we have no way of finding out really any more especially being unable to locate the original deeds. With both the railway station and track being LONG gone. Its a mystery.

moneyistooshorttomention

I guess you might find out a bit more of the general history of the area if you contact a local history society??

Quite often groups like U3A have got some keen local history buffs in them. There are often people around who make a real hobby of finding out exactly whats what about an area and can tell you about it in great detail back to the Year Dot.

Wouldn't tell you re your specific property (ie the shop) - but might give some pointers as to what has happened over the years.

dan91

Just a little update for anyone that was interested. We informed them in person 2 days ago and they said they would get onto their solicitor, in the mean time our solicitor will be writing to them just to say what we said in person. It will then be a case of them proving their documents.

DRP

thanks - keep us updated!

Lifes_Grand_Plan

I'm very interested to hear the outcome on this one.... good luck dan91.

dan91

So we have not heard anything even a week after the solicitors letter and neither has our solicitor. We also told them face to face two weeks tomorrow. They have sent them another letter now telling them that any property they want needs to be removed by Friday the 10th July as we will be gaining entry and changing the locks at that time. This letter was sent on Friday so they got it yesterday or will tomorrow.

Will post if i get any more news :P