UKPC parking notice - advice please!

Water_Polo_Player

Hi,

I'm the registered keeper of a car given a windscreen notice at a hospital by UKPC for overstaying beyond purchased ticket time (hospital appointment massively delayed).

Unfortunately I can't post copy of notice as new user (been viewing for years!).

It's now 2 weeks since incident, nothing received through post as yet. Notice gives 28 days to appeal.

Am I right in thinking I wait for 20 days or so until appealing to UKPC?

What if I don't receive NTK?

I intend to email PALS (the hospital helpline) to ask for cancellation on mitigating circumstances but wondered whether I should wait until I get NTK?

Any help appreciated,

Thanks in anticipation

Redx

yes, wait for 21 to 25 days as it tells you in the NEWBIES sticky thread, then appeal as KEEPER using the template

you may or may not get any NTK, depends on what happens so deal with that issue as and when necessary

meanwhile, read the NEWBIES thread, tells you all you need to know

complain to PALS anyway, neither they nor UKPC know who the driver is, keep it that way (assume I was driving)

host any pics on tinypic or photobucket

Umkomaas

If you don't receive a NtK, then there can be no keeper liability. But you shouldn't get one before 28 days (and up to 56 days) have elapsed since the parking event.

Around the 20 day mark, send off the initial appeal in the NEWBIES sticky - as is (as KEEPER), don't try to elaborate or amend as you're more likely to mess up that way.

It will take the PPC up to 35 days to respond to your appeal with a POPLA code. You have from then 28 days to appeal to POPLA. While all this time is ticking away and the PPC only dealing with your initial appeal (as keeper), the 56 days to issue the NtK will have elapsed along with keeper liability - they will most likely have taken their eye off this ball They can then only chase the driver - and they have no way of knowing who that was - slam dunk at POPLA.

It is vitally important if using this strategy that there is no indication, explicit or implicit, in any correspondence you have with the PPC who the driver might have been - hence my 'don't mess with the initial appeal template' earlier in this post.

Coupon-mad

Am I right in thinking I wait for 20 days or so until appealing to UKPC?

Yes I favour appealing at that time, 3 weeks in from any windscreen ticket from an AOS member, so that they might forget to send any NTK. That's why the NEWBIES thread advises to do that.

UKPC do forget usually, when they get an appeal they assume it's from the driver and don't realise. Obviously make sure the DRIVER is not admitted so no adding any 'helpful' relevant details to the template appeal please!

Water_Polo_Player

Update:
1. I submitted appeal to UKPC online using the template exactly. Pesky people limit characters on the form to 2,000 and it wouldn't all fit in - so I had to attach it as a PDF!

2. I separately sent an email as registered keeper to PALS (the hospital patient helpline) and whilst very sympathetic they said they can't cancel the notice. This is the extract from them:
"PALS unfortunately are not able to issue a cancellation letter and would always advise for you follow the procedure set out on the back of the parking notice and appeal against the charge.
It is advisable to include all extenuating circumstances in your appeal so that it can be taken into consideration by the appeals panel, which includes a Trust representative."

As they say a hospital trust representative is on the UKPC appeals panel I am wondering if it's worth trying to add to my appeal the mitigating circumstance of a ticket being purchased but appointment delayed led to the overstaying? (I have scan of hospital appointment letter addressed to 'parents/guardians of...') plus copy of the ticket.

Or is it better to leave this out and just stick to the template appeal.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

ManxRed

The phrase you need to use, to cover both the mitigating circumstances AND the legal issue is 'frustration of contract' (Google it).

This is where an unforeseen event prevents one of the contracting parties from fulfilling their obligations under the contract.

fisherjim

I'm sorry I just do not believe that with all the guff that goes through UKPC's office in Beaconsfield, and all the sites they cover that they have an appeals panel, let alone waste anyone's time having a multitude of meetings to adjudicate individual appeals!
Perhaps you should ask them when the next meeting is so you could pop along in person!!

Coupon-mad

Water_Polo_Player wrote: »

Update:
1. I submitted appeal to UKPC online using the template exactly. Pesky people limit characters on the form to 2,000 and it wouldn't all fit in - so I had to attach it as a PDF!

Most people just cut it down, of course there's no need for 'Dear Sir' and headings nor signature on an online appeal as it's not a letter, and if it's still too long you could have removed a 'waffle' paragraph. Really there's never a need for a PDF.

By the way when the online appeal rejected the appeal as 'too long' it will have reset your status to 'driver' rather than registered keeper. Hope you corrected that second time around. It's a known issue with UKPC's online appeals page, defaults to driver then goes back to that default if the page rejects something. You hit submit and they have your appeal with the admission 'driver'. NOT good.

Water_Polo_Player

Thanks Coupon-Mad.

I did try removing spaces, opening lines, all sorts but still said over character limit. I just had to enter - see attached PDF in the complaint box.

You had me worried for a second about the form reverting to driver, but I went back and looked at the screen grab I took of the form - it did say "registered keeper" (as well as in the PDF) - phew!

It seems probably best not to try adding the mitigating factor - as another poster said they almost certainly don't have a meeting to discuss individual appeals with a person from the hospital trust!

Thanks again.

Water_Polo_Player

Having sent the pro-forma letter, I have today received the expected rejection from UKPC's appeal (they say they sat with Hospital trust). As a new poster the site won't allow me to post links, therefore I have pasted the text of the letter below.

I assume next stage is to appeal to POPLA? Any guidance willingly accepted.

Thanks in advance.

Dear,

Thank you for your appeal. Each of your raised points (listed as a – e) will be addressed in turn:

a) In the recent case of Parking Eye v Beavis [20l5] EWCA Civ.402, the Court of Appeal unambiguously clarified common law’s position on both the nature and enforceability of parking charges.
It is now clear that a parking charge having the predominant purpose or intention to deter is 'not sufficient in itself to invalidate [the charge].’ .The principle test that should be used is ‘whether the sum charged is ‘extravagant and unconscionable'. In the case, 'it was found that the parking charge was not extravagant and unconscionable and thus fully enforceable under the rules about contract penalties. The court made reference to the indirect losses that parking contraventions can Cause to parking operators, the need for large charges to deter breaches, the benefit to the community that such deterrence can create and the intention of Parliament for such charges to be enforceable. This ruling now represents the most authoritative judgement in the area of parking law. And must be strictly adhered to.

Following the ruling in Beavis it is without doubt that your parking charge is wholly valid and fully enforceable.

b) As per the reasoning set out in the recent Parking Eyre v Beavis judgement in the Court of Appeal, the sum charged is certainly not extravagant and unconscionable. It is true that the Beavis case is due to be heard in the Supreme Court but until then the Court of Appeal’s reasoning and determination stands as precedent. In any case the Supreme Court is scheduled to hear the Beavis case in July 2015with a judgement predicted to be handed down later in 2015, thus the likelihood of this matter being stayed in the courts till 2016 is minimal.

c) UKPC has contractual authority from the landowner to issue parking charges on site. Naturally this contract is commercially sensitive and will not be disclosed in response to unsubstantiated suspicions.

d) All of UKPC's notices comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012, the BPA Code of Practice and all other applicable laws and regulations.

e) A contract cannot be simply 'denied', after it has been validly constituted and then breached. The offer for contractual relations is provided by the sufficient and clear signage on site. This offer is accepted by conduct when a motorist decides to park on site. Obvious consideration flaws from both parties – the provision of a parking place from the parking operator and the promise to be bound by parking restrictions by the motorist.

Your formal challenge and 'drop hands' offer are both understood but respectfully rejected. UKPC takes its duty to mitigate its losses very seriously and strives to do so. However your offer of £18p.h. plus other expenses /damages for your time, if UKPC continues to pursue its compensation, is unambiguously rejected.

It is reminded that the Consumer Contracts Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (the implementation of the EU Directive on Consumer Rights) will not aid you in escaping liability under your parking charge. The contract between UKPC and yourself has already concluded and all services (the provision of a parking space) have been supplied. There are no new obligations stemming from this contract. Attempting to cancel this contract via the Act is thus superfluous. In any case, the breach and loss to UKPC created by yourself occurred before this attempted cancellation. UKPC is entitled to pursue liquidated damages for this breach of contract to compensate for the loss it has suffered. There is nothing in these Regulations that precludes acceptance of terms of parking by conduct. Section 9 of the 2013 regulations does state that changes to a contract must be ‘expressly agreed’, which may be what you are referring to, though it is irrelevant to the present situation.

A reply to your appeal does not represent acceptance of your raised points or any other offer. Your appeal is wholly rejected and it is urged that you make payment for your lawfully issued parking charge.

We appreciate that this is not the outcome you will have hoped for. Unless you have any additional information that you have not already brought to our attention this decision is final.

Please note that your appeal has been heard by an internal panel at the Buckinghamshire Healthcare Trust and the decision to reject the appeal was made by this panel.

In light of the contents of the contents of this letter you now hove o number of options:

1. Pay the parking charge detailed overleaf at the reduced rate of £30 to UK Parking Control Ltd. PLEASE REFER OVERLEAF FOR PAYMENT OPTIONS AND ADDRESS DETAILS.
2. Make an appeal to POPLA - The lndependent Appeals Service, POPLA, PO Box 70748, London, ECIP ISN within 28 days of the date of this letter or by making an appeal online at ... Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the charge at the discounted rate of £30, and should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £60. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.
3. lf you choose to do nothing the parking charge will automatically increase after 35 days from the date of this letter to £60 and the matter will be passed to our debt recovery agent, at which point you will be liable to pay an additional charge of £60, in accordance with our terms and conditions of parking, and further charges will be claimed if court action is taken against you. Any unpaid Court Judgement may adversely affect your credit rating.

PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE.THIS LETTER. UKPC REGULARLY TAKES MOTORISTS TO COURT WHO IGNORE THEIR PARKING CHARGES. PLEASE SEE: ... FOR FURTHER INFORMATION.

Yours faithfully,
Appeals Department
UK Parking Control Limited

Herzlos

Yup, take it to POPLA, where you'll win.

Pretty much everything they mention in that rejection is bs.