Architect or structural enginner?

phatwa1

HI! We have seen a delightful Grade II listed house that is within budget, however the internal layout needs some tweaking and our offer would be dependent on being able to do this. As we are not experienced with any of this, I am looking for some tips...Is it best to approach an architect or a structural engineer to get an idea if the work is possible? Do these people give cost estimates or do we need to contact a builder too????

Most of the work is internal, such as: lowering kitchen floor (the owners have already had quotes for this apparently), removing the new staircase and reverting back to using the old one (it has 2 staircases!) and a few other internal wall changes/movements to open things up a bit. Externally maybe 1-2 new 'conservation' velux windows but this isn't a dealbreaker. I assume it is better to contact an engineer to get an idea if the work is possible first, then the planners later to see if the work is actually permitted?! We are not sure where to start with it but want to act quickly. Thanks Laura

eddddy

It depends what you mean by tweaks. A builder should be able to quote for things like removing a staircase, removing/adding partition walls, new doorways etc.

You might instruct an architect if you want advice on layout, design etc.

If you plan to knock down load bearing walls, the builder or architect might need to instruct a structural engineer to calculate the size of steel beams required.

Don't forget to check up whether you need listed building consent for your plans (I suspect that conservation velux windows will be totally out of the question).




Edit to add:

If you want to lower the kitchen floor significantly, and it's a solid floor - it may be sensible to get a building surveyor's opinion. There may be issues with damp-proofing - and if you're going down a long way with a house with shallow foundations, that may be a problem.

Surrey_EA

In addition to the above reply, I would be speaking to the conservation officer at the local authority, and ideally arranging a visit to the property with them to discuss the changes/alterations you wish to make.

Many things might be possible from a building point of view, but you need to know what you are allowed to do.

phatwa1

Thanks, I'm just not really sure which to do first. What is the correct order etc.

Say for example the lowering the floor part. Do I need to first approach an engineer to see if it's feasible or do I need to contact a planning advisor to see if they think it will get approved. I just don't know the correct order of things. It is likely I will need LBC for some of the plans, but not all.

It doesn't help that the property is occupied as well, so getting access needs to be pre-arranged.

Surrey_EA

It is a bit chicken and egg, but personally I'd get the conservation officer out first of all, then start talking to builders/architects etc.

movilogo

architect = pictures, aesthetics => like a poet who sees possibility, can build castle in the air

structural engineer = calculation, whether wall can take load, whether foundation will settle, feasibility => like a scientist, everything must be backed up by calculation and laws of physics

Doozergirl

The conservation officer is absolute key. Listed Building Consent will be needed for everything you've put on your list!

Some of the advice you have been given is wrong, simply because the building is Listed.

Something like removing a staircase may be particularly contentious. I would recommend an architect who is experienced with listed buildings and wherever possible, has a working relationship with the local conservation officers.

I would not buy a Listed building expecting to be able to knock it about too much. Additions are preferred to extractions but ultimately, conservation is subjective, not based on planning law and you are at the whim of one person.

Even a structural engineer can't tell you if it is possible to carry out a job if you are never going to get permission.

Architect. Negotiate with a conservation officer alone at your own peril. If you look like you have no idea, they will treat you and your project with kid gloves and stay on the conservative side.

I'm not sure how long your vendors are prepared to wait, but you will not have any firm answers for months, so you will probably be force to buy without a set answer. A pre-app will take several weeks at best and and an application upwards of 8 weeks.

Hoploz

Another vote here for the conservation officer, as soon as you can. This is the key. Most things can be done structurally, but if little is permitted, or it's going to take years of wrangling to get answers, you have to ask whether you want to proceed any further.

Freecall

Just to re-iterate what Doozergirl has said, you really are looking at this the wrong way. Almost anything will be structurally possible, it is whether or not you will get permission that is important.

Do have a word with the local conservation officer although they tend to be a bit cautious when confronted with enthusiastic amateurs. If you are serious then you should appoint a specialist building advisor (probably but not necessarily an architect) to deal with the conservation officer and draw up a plan of proposed work.

phatwa1

Thankyou. It looks like the local council charge £120 for on site visit, but you can also write to them which is cheaper. It doesn't look like I can just speak with a conservation officer informally without paying. As it's such a minefield we would really prefer to use a professional.

IIn this situation is the vendor normally happy to allow prospective buyers to do all of this or do they normally ask for an offer first? It's a catch 22 because we don't have a clue how much it will cost, so can't put in an offer really. The house has been on the market for some time and the floor height has put people off, apparently.

laidbackgjr

Freecall wrote: »

Just to re-iterate what Doozergirl has said, you really are looking at this the wrong way. Almost anything will be structurally possible, it is whether or not you will get permission that is important.

Do have a word with the local conservation officer although they tend to be a bit cautious when confronted with enthusiastic amateurs. If you are serious then you should appoint a specialist building advisor (probably but not necessarily an architect) to deal with the conservation officer and draw up a plan of proposed work.

Very good advice - one point though - whilst structurally almost anything is possible - the costs of doing it can vary hugely depending upon how easy / difficult it is to achieve. e.g. removing a staircase could be a builder for a day to simply knock it out and make good, or weeks of disruption moving pipes / wires / adding extra structural supports etc with all the extra cost that would involve.