can EAs 'sell' a house before probate is granted?

wanye

we went to see a house back in february and immediately loved it... put an offer in, which was accepted.

as the house was empty/advertised as no chain (the owner had died, and it was his relatives selling) we were lead to believe we could complete and be in there in minimal time.

this was another reason we put the offer in, we didnt want to be hanging around waiting for someone to sell before we could move in, as we were burned a few months earlier by a seller who just on a whim decided they didnt want to sell after all

aaaanyway, we start the ball rolling, the mortgage valuation survey brings up a couple of warning flags (asbestos mostly) so we look at getting a full survey done... the agents push us to get this done ASAP. we fork out the £700 and it all comes back ok.

it wasnt until three weeks after the offer was accepted, we get a letter from our solicitors saying that we had to wait for probate to complete, which should take an estimated 4-6 weeks. whilst annoyed at the delay, we could take the month long delay. chase it at 4 weeks. no news. chase it at 6 weeks to find out there was a further delay. "up to another 10 weeks"

at this point we're getting sick of being in limbo with no answers what the hell is going on. after chasing the EA to speak with the vendors, we found out it was all to do with the deceased leaving a chunk to charity (apparently he didnt specify amounts, so the solicitors make offers to each of the charities, and they then have to write back to confirm they are happy with receiving whatever amount it is, and it was this what was delaying probate)

anyway, our mortgage offer expires at the end of july, we're about £1500 in the hole for fees and expenses so far, and still no further into the sale after 5 months.

is there anything we can do if we decide to pull out of it all? im not necessarily wanting compensation or anything, but as i'm massively out of pocket already, getting something back from this whole mess would be a big help!

i dont want to just walk away from it all... but surely the agents cant legally put a house up for sale if that house doesnt actually belong to the people trying to sell it yet? surely all this should have been mentioned before we started paying for solicitors fees and surveys/etc?

any thoughts/suggestions?

cheers,
w.

G_M

The estate agent can (indeed should) market the property when instructed to do so. If the Executers /Administrators told the agent to market it, .......

Probate can take 2 weeks. Or 6 months.

But then any purchase can take 2 weeks, or 6 months.

Not much you can do. Either

* sit it out
* withdraw and start again or
* start looking again but without without withdrawing and see what happens first: this purchase or you find another property.

Surrey_EA

There is nothing to stop an EA marketing a house before probate has been granted, but as you are finding out a sale cannot go through until grant of probate is available.

I would imagine the EAs are acting on behalf of the executors of the estate of the deceased individual, and they are the ones legally responsible for the property. Believe me, there is no reason why an EA wants the sale to take any longer than is absolutely necessary, and they were probably working from exactly the same information that you were given earlier in the process, and unfortunately the estate has turned out to be more complicated than anyone had anticipated.

Can you ask your solicitor to get in touch with the seller's solicitor and get an update on how much longer they think this process will take, that will give you an indication of whether you should consider cutting your losses or sticking with it.

getmore4less

IT is possible to to get a long way with the sale(even past exchange) without probate if there is a will with named executors.
(allthough your solicitor will most likely not be keen on that)

The solicitors could ask for a limited probate(got a special name) to just sell the house if they wanted.

wanye

Surrey_EA wrote: »

Can you ask your solicitor to get in touch with the seller's solicitor and get an update on how much longer they think this process will take, that will give you an indication of whether you should consider cutting your losses or sticking with it.

we've done this, and the vendors solicitors have effectively said to stop calling for updates!

we've basically said that if there's no progress on all this by the time the mortgage offer expires we'll be pulling out.

Surrey_EA

What a thorough pain.

In my experience the combination of charities, and probate can go on for a very long time, and nobody involved seems to have the slightest sense of urgency. I think you going to have to prepare yourself to start looking for an alternative property.

Make sure your solicitor has written to the other side advising them that your mortgage offer is close to running out and they need to try and resolve the position quickly if they wish to sell to you.

Best of luck.

wanye

Surrey_EA wrote: »

Make sure your solicitor has written to the other side advising them that your mortgage offer is close to running out and they need to try and resolve the position quickly if they wish to sell to you.

Best of luck.

cheers... we've done that, both through the solicitor and the EA contacting the vendor directly. that was 2-3 weeks ago, and we've heard nothing since.

if we end up pulling out, we're going to sack off looking for 6 months or so, and use some of the money we've saved for a holiday. between house stuff and work stuff, its been a truly horrible year, and i'm going to start looking for another job, ive been in this one 9 years, and in the last 6 months, the place has *completely* turned to crap. i would have jumped at the start of the year had we not be in the process of buying a house!

stator

Unless they lied to you directly there's nothing you can do.

Surrey_EA

wanye wrote: »

cheers... we've done that, both through the solicitor and the EA contacting the vendor directly. that was 2-3 weeks ago, and we've heard nothing since.

if we end up pulling out, we're going to sack off looking for 6 months or so, and use some of the money we've saved for a holiday. between house stuff and work stuff, its been a truly horrible year, and i'm going to start looking for another job, ive been in this one 9 years, and in the last 6 months, the place has *completely* turned to crap. i would have jumped at the start of the year had we not be in the process of buying a house!

The system we have for buying and selling in this country really can be crap, and it sounds like you've had a particularly rough time with this one.

Enjoy your holiday, best of luck finding a new job and I'll bet you'll have bought an even better house than this one in a years time.

getmore4less

Jobs before house is the usual order,

you never know where the job might be or just restrict you search parameters.

(they may allready be restricted due to other factors).

burnsguitarman

You have my sympathy, I hope ours dosen't drag on so long. We are in a similar position re offering full asking price, for an expected quick completion, only to find out 3 weeks down the line that probate had not even been applied for!! Now it turns out that the deeds can't be found? and as the property is not registered with Land Registry, that will be another delay. 5 weeks in and counting. I hope we dont have any problems with charities or anything else.