tenancy deposit dispute - garden costs

dont__panic

Hi,

My first post so apologies if I have missed some rules.

I am a tenant that has moved out of a property. The landlord has made a claim for part of the deposit for costs to:

'Cut back shrubs and trees apply weed killer and clear cuttings.'

My argument to the landlord is that the garden was badly overgrown when we moved in and the pruning I did has left it in a better condition than it was. - The condition now isn't great, and there are weeds and the bushes are getting a bit wild, but compared to when we moved in, it looks great.

..However there are no photos of the mess it was in when we moved in. There are photos of it now. With the clause in the agreement and inventory stated below, do I have any chance of winning the dispute in which it basically boils down to our word against the landlord of the state when we moved in?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

The agreement in the clause is:

'To cut the grass (if any) of the Property with an appropriate garden mower as necessary from time to time to keep the grass in, or bring about, a neat and tidy condition. Futhermore, to keep the patio areas (if any), paths, garden areas, lawns, flower beds, shrubs or bushes (if any) as tidy, weed free and in seasonal order as at commencement of the tenancy.'

- Note there is no grass, it is pebbled area

Check in description of the garden:

Green wooden shed which contains a wheelbarrow, Qualcast lawn mower, various items, shed is badly weathered. Greed painted wooden structre, wooden baench which is weathered, border with shrubs in and solar lights, pebbled area with various plant pots, wooden decking area with solar lights and plant pots, hanging baskets, washing line.

pmlindyloo

First of all I am presuming that your deposit has been protected?

From what you say, this is a difficult one.

1. There is a clause in your tenancy agreement detailing how you should look after the garden.
2. There was a detailed check out report with pictures of the state of the garden.

But.........

There are no pictures/detailed description in the check in report.

But........ (as far as I know)

You did not question/make your own notes about the state of the garden when you first took on the property/received the check in inventory.

Read this and then decide whether it is worth disputing.

https://www.mydeposits.co.uk/sites/default/files/Landlords%20-How%20to%20Claim%20for%20Garden%20Maintenance.pdf

How much does the LL want? How he/she returned the remainder of the deposit (the undisputed amount) yet?

dont__panic

Hi,

Thanks for the reply,

- It is indeed protected through a deposit scheme, and it is through an agent.
-Unfortunately I was quite niave when we moved in so we didn't make any comments or notes about the condition then.

I read that document and I didn't really come to a conclusion.

On my part the main points that make me consider raising a dispute are
- The wording of the clause that states that it should be in a similar state as we moved in
- I feel I am in the right - it was a real state (Obviously I know that has no bearing at all as there is no proof)

it was £140 they want to deduct.

Pixie5740

Read this: Deposits

If you disagree with the proposed deductions and cannot come to an agreement with the landlord then raise a dispute with the deposit scheme.

It is a tricky one as your tenancy agreement does say you should maintain the garden to a certain standard but I'm not sure how enforceable that is, and on the other hand your landlord isn't entitled to betterment and there's no evidence one way or the other about the state of the garden at the start of the tenancy.

mrginge

The ADR will work on the basis of the evidence provided to them.
The LL can provide evidence to the clause, inventory, check out condition and your lack of dispute at the time of check-in.

Presumably you cannot dispute the first three. Therefore you need to provide evidence that the condition was not as good as at check out, plus some plausible reason why you did not report it as such when you moved in.
By the sounds of it you do not have any evidence.

Assuming the LL is not incompetent and can put together a sensible claim based on the above, who would you believe?

Dispute it by all means, but unless you have a bit more to submit I wouldn't be betting on a positive result.

franklee

mrginge wrote: »

The ADR will work on the basis of the evidence provided to them.
The LL can provide evidence to the clause, inventory, check out condition and your lack of dispute at the time of check-in.

Lack of dispute over what on check-in? The inventory just says border with shrubs in, that's just like saying there is carpet in a room there's no indication of condition. It doesn't say anything about how overgrown or tidy the shrubs and weeds were and there are no photos so there was nothing to prompt the tenant into objecting. If it had said shrubs neatly pruned to 4ft and weed free I'd guess the tenant would have thought to check and object but as it is he overlooked the garden condition just as the LL had done.

OP to cover your back, you should have photoed the garden and noted it's state on the check in inventory so you can back up your defence. However given the LL is claiming from your money the onus is on him to prove the state of the garden at the start of the tenancy.

I'd suggest you dispute it by giving an accurate description of the garden at check in and point out the inventory is silent on the garden state. Are you sure you don't have any photos? Even if they were after move in you can still point out how big the shrubs had got by whatever date they were taken. Be aware that the LL may produce some old photos. Do the neighbours have any photos taken from upstairs etc? Do you have any taken from windows, you might have something.

pmlindyloo

Have you written back to the landlord saying that you left the garden in the same (if not better) condition as to when you moved in?

You could, in the letter, dispute the charges pointing out that there is no photographic evidence of the state of the garden on the check in inventory, you found the garden in such and such a condition and therefore you consider that there is no deduction from the deposit due.

Continue by saying that if the LL disagrees then you are happy for the dispute to be handled by the deposit scheme and you look forward to the amount not in dispute being returned to you in ** days time.

Or you could go 'halves' if you wanted to.

This, at least, will give the LL the opportunity to respond and also provide proof, if it goes to dispute, of your trying to negotiate with LL. (so keep a copy of letter)

dont__panic

Thanks everyone for your replies, it is appreciated.

In the end I negotiated to go halves with the LL. After all the time and effort of moving we decided this was small enough to take as a hit, compared to disputing it.

The replies mirrored what I was thinking, - it's in the clause and check in. But it was a bit hazy. - Without photo evidence of the state of the garden on move in, I don't think anyone can be confident in the outcome.

(but it was a mess)

The lesson for me is, have photo evidence of everything on moving in and don't just accept the check in report. - A lesson well learnt here.

Thanks!

mrginge

franklee wrote: »

Lack of dispute over what on check-in? The inventory just says border with shrubs in, that's just like saying there is carpet in a room there's no indication of condition. It doesn't say anything about how overgrown or tidy the shrubs and weeds were and there are no photos so there was nothing to prompt the tenant into objecting. If it had said shrubs neatly pruned to 4ft and weed free I'd guess the tenant would have thought to check and object but as it is he overlooked the garden condition just as the LL had done.

Well silly old me. Here was I thinking that the TA stated that the garden should be kept in a neat and tidy condition.

...Oh it did.

So OP gets and reads the TA, sees the state of the garden and the details on the inventory.
Is it therefore reasonable that the OP does not raise a query, dispute or have any kind of communication with the LL regarding the condition of the garden?

all it would take is one email saying the garden is a mess.

jjlandlord

If the tenant is responsible for keeping the garden tidy then that's what he should do. It doesn't matter what the garden was like when he moved in.

Pixie5740

jjlandlord wrote: »

If the tenant is responsible for keeping the garden tidy then that's what he should do. It doesn't matter what the garden was like when he moved in.

This is a serious question but is a clause saying the tenant will keep the garden tidy, even if it was a jungle at the start of the tenancy enforceable? I ask because if you move into a rental property and it's dirty, then you don't have to leave it cleaner than that when you move out.