A question about keeping children off school in term time: to take them on holiday.

fierystormcloud

Seeing as how nobody is answering my question on the other thread 'our kids refused time off during school term time,' I am posting a seperate thread. People only seem to be focussing on the bits of my posts that suit them, and ignoring this fundamental point of mine that I have mentioned several times. Hence I am posting a thread about this one point that people seem to be avoiding answering.

For all these people who are against taking children on holiday in term time, (parents, teachers, and people who CLAIM to be teachers,) and who are ranting and raving about the dire effect it supposedly has keeping a child out for a whole week (or 2) out of the academic year; please explain the following...

1) How come up to around 6 years ago, it was OK to take your children out in term time, and was in fact widely accepted (and even encouraged, as the schools were pleased the children's horizons were being widened; ) but now it is not? Who suddenly decided - 6 or 7 years ago - that parents should be punished for taking their children on holiday in term time, when for years and years, it was OK?

2) How come the standards and grades in schools - overall - have slipped over the last 5 to 6 years? (Since they stopped allowing you to take your kids out in school term time?!) In the days where people kept their children off for 2 weeks to go on holiday (and it was widely accepted,) the school's performances were better. So if it has such a HUGE effect, keeping children off for one or two weeks a year, then how come since this 'YOU CAN'T KEEP KIDS OFF IN SCHOOL TIME' ruling came in, standards and grades have fallen?

Nicki

As neither of your two statements are factually correct no one will be able to answer them

I was at school between 1972 and 1987 and my children have been at school between 2003 and now. No school I have known in that time has ever actively encouraged parents to take term time holidays. Can you produce any evidence at all in support of your assertion this was wide spread or government policy.

The law preventing head teachers from authorising term time holidays (other than in exceptional circumstances) came into force in September 2013 (not 5 or 6 years ago) and so this years GCSE and A level results and primary school SATs would be the first which could show an effect and they have not been marked yet much less statistics analysed.

meer53

Who says standards and grades in schools have "slipped" ?

balletshoes

I agree with Nicki - and regularly "debate" this with my mum (I'm in my 40s, mum is nearly 70).

All the way through my school life (so from early 70s to mid-80s) it was certainly not widely accepted or encouraged to take your kids out of school to go on holiday in term time. I don't recall anyone doing so out of my school peers.

Roll on to the last 10 years, when my daughter has been in school. Yes, when she started primary school, our state school did apply a blanket up-to-10-days policy for authorised days out of school in term time. This stopped when the law in England and Wales changed a couple of years ago.

Interestingly, until I moved from Scotland to England over a decade ago, I'd never heard of the "10 days" deal, and it was Scotland I was educated in, where in my time, parents didn't generally take their kids out of school in term time for holidays.

LilElvis

My Mum definitely, absolutely, categorically was a primary school teacher for over 40 years, retiring about 8 years ago. I called to double-check and she has confirmed that taking children out of school for holidays was always frowned upon and discouraged.

Please feel to post a link to reports corroborating your assertion that grades have declined in recent years as I have obviously been duped into believing that they have improved.

gettingtheresometime

I can only speak for myself.

We never took our son out of school for a cheap(er) holiday at any point during his school years - if we couldn't afford a holiday (and we didn't go every year) then we simply didn't go.

As for standards - well again I can't comment but it does seem that pupils are coached to pass exams these days and not taught the subect - and there is a difference.

As an example the question that last week had thousands of people taking to twitter to complain about I managed to answer in 5 mins and I'm not university educated, had carp A level results and have been out of education for the last 30 odd years......now the question that the students from Singapore had to answer I couldn't even understand the question let alone answer it.

So basically I think the difference is that now everyone assumes that it is their birth right to go away on holiday whereas before if you couldn't afford it you stayed at home or went away in this country

gettingtheresometime

LilElvis wrote: »

My Mum definitely, absolutely, categorically was a primary school teacher for over 40 years, retiring about 8 years ago. I called to double-check and she has confirmed that taking children out of school for holidays was always frowned upon and discouraged.

One of my son's teachers wanted to get married & have her honeymoon in June and she told me she had to have permission from the governing body to do so

GwylimT

Can you send me a link to your sources? I'm afraid where secondary achievement is concerned they are simply incorrect, I will show you actual pass rates from 2009 to 2014.

English lit A*-C 2009 73%, 2010 76%, 2011 78%, 2012 76%, 2013 76%, 2014 76%. The first time we hit 70% for this subject was 2008, before this was stuck in the low sixtiea for a long time.

Maths A*-C 2009 57%, 2010 58%, 2011 58%, 2012 58%, 2013 57%, 2014 62%. As a side note, additional maths is now 93% in 2009 it was 68%.

Science Double award A*-C 2009 86%, 2010 87%. Until 2007 it had never climbed above 57%.

Biology A*-C 2009 91%, 2010 92%, 2011 93%, 2012 92%, 2013 89%, 2014 90%. Until 2008 the number has never hit 90%.

Chemistry A*-C 93% for all but two years which were 90%.

Physics A*-C again 93% for all but two years, one being 91% and the other 90%.

So as you can see standards have not fallen and have infact on the whole improved since 2009, also schools were stopped from authorising holidays in 2013, not 2009.

Two of my students were on a holiday during their ISA, as they are higher students they will achieve a fantastic U in their double science, this will also delay their A-levels by one year.

1940sGal

Who said it was ever 'widely accepted'? It was never punished like it is now with penalties etc, but that doesn't mean it was 'accepted'.

And do you actually have any proof that grades have slipped? If that was the case, would we be hearing so much about how exams now are supposedly so much easier?

Personally i don't think taking kids out of school for a week or two would make a massive difference and this system of fining parents if they do is rot. But i think your post is mis-guided. I don't think it was ever 'widely accepted', it was just a matter that there was very little anyone could do about it.

Mojisola

gettingtheresometime wrote: »

One of my son's teachers wanted to get married & have her honeymoon in June and she told me she had to have permission from the governing body to do so

And the governing body would only have given permission if there was a very good reason why the wedding couldn't be held in school holidays. Just "wanting" a June wedding wouldn't have been a good enough reason in the school where I was a governor.

Spendless

I was in compulsory education from 1971-1983. I remember at Junior school (mid-late 70s) the head teacher saying it was ok to be off school for a family holiday to go away but not jsut because your parent had taken some days off work. These weren't affluent years though for many households, so I guess the majority of people weren't going away. I only recall going away in term-time (abroad) when my parents became better off, as my Mum started up her own business, these were the latter secondary school years. Prior to this I only remember UK holidays. I have no idea if prices used to shoot up in the holidays back then.

If you want to know more about the rules changing in September 2013, there is a campaign group called 'Parents want a say' that former MP John Hemming supports. Here is a link from them into what led to the rules being changed.

http://www.parentswantasay.co.uk/documents/wheredidthenewregscomefrom.pdf

You'll find more info on their website.