help please! 100 yo loft 'conversion' and building regs

renovate-plymouth

Hello all,

hoping for a bit of advice here, we're clueless first time buyers!

We've had an offer accepted on a gorgeous 3 bed Victorian end-of-terrace. The house just came back on the market after the last sale fell through. The EA was very open about why the last sale fell through: the last solicitor asked for building regs approval for the loft room and a number of other alterations downstairs. Because there was no paperwork to support these alterations the last buyer was advised to pull out.

Now, since the last buyer pulled out building control has been to the property and given retrospective approval for the alterations downstairs. The building control officer also went upstairs to look at the loft room. When asking if he could sign this off too, he asked the owner how old the conversion was. She said she didn't know but that it had been there when they bought the house 5 years ago and the previous owners already had the loft room in there, too. He asked the owner to take a guess and say a random year, she said probably at least 30 years ago. He then said he wasn't interested in the loft as it looks like it's been there for longer than building regs have been in place. However, he couldn't give this to them in writing.

Since the building control visit the owners have also had a RICS registered structural surveyor look at the property. He was confident that the loft room has been used as a loft room since the very early days of the house (1890s).

We hoped that our solicitor would accept the surveyor's letter but he is still asking for an indemnity policy (which we can't get as building control have already been to the house) or a letter from the council saying they won't take legal action as the conversion pre-dates modern building regs.

Can anyone offer any advice on what we could do? We really want to buy the house but are worried about reselling it at some point in the future. What if future solicitors also ask for this kind of evidence? Any opinions would be hugely appreciated!

Sorry this turned into a complete novel!

Thank you all in advance!

King_Slayer

Is there any way you may be able to take out your own indemnity policy to cover this. I'm not certain of the legalities whether there is a requirement that the seller covers it. Failing that you can change your SOL, not certain what fees you would be required to pay current SOL, for work already completed. If you have to resort to the latter explain the situation before proceeding. However your SOL will always act in your best interest.

As a buyer it won't sit well with me that they weren't willing to state this in writing.

renovate-plymouth

Hiya, thanks for your reply! Our solicitor is happy for us to proceed but will want us to sign a disclaimer for his firm in terms of any loss or damage we may incur as part of this purchase.

We're going to try to speak to building control again tomorrow to see if they can give us something in writing.

I currently see the biggest issue as not knowing if the house is legally a 2 or 3 bed. If the loft has always (since 1890s) been a bedroom then the house was always a 3 bed house, but would it have turned into a 2 bed house when building regs came out in 1985? And if so, wouldn't that mean that every house that is having some alterations done (which at the time comply with building regs) might be illegal a few years down the line when building regs are overhauled again?

It's all so confusing and I'm finding it so hard to understand what the implications of all of this might be!

Hoploz

Buildings built before building regs are not illegal. There will be no certificate saying the original house meets any official criteria, for example, but it doesn't mean the house is illegal!

It makes no difference whether it is used as 2 beds or 3. You could use the lounge as a bedroom if you wanted to, it makes no legal difference.

The only point is, that it may or may not be constructed using modern techniques. There is a possibility it was built with the loft room originally.

If you and a structural engineer think its safe, and it's been there all ths time with no ill effects there's no problem. Just sign the disclaimer and forget about it.

renovate-plymouth

Hoploz wrote: »

If you and a structural engineer think its safe, and it's been there all ths time with no ill effects there's no problem. Just sign the disclaimer and forget about it.

I completely agree and would love to do just that... however, I'm just worried about re-selling the house. If we didn't love the house so much (I know, I know... you're meant to leave emotions out of buying a house but that's much easier said than done) we would have been put off by this legal nightmare.

Hoploz

THe only other thing you can really do is to get some sort of evidence that the room was used historically. Would there be any way of contacting a previous owner from the 1980's? If someone verified it was in used before building regs that would confirm it. Of course the building inspector would be most useful! What about a long time neighbour? have there been previous planning applications for extensions, which would have drawings of the house as it existed at the time? These would be filed with the council.

I wonder how it came up in the first place - who decided it was a loft conversion? If you re sell you would just say that as far as you know it has been the same for years and years.

I happen to be in touch with people who lived in my house 1981-2003, which has been soooo useful! They've told us so much about the house and the work they did. The people we bought it off were divorcing and unhelpful to the degree of almost being obstructive! But now we happily have cups of tea looking at old photos of our house years ago with the earlier owners.

renovate-plymouth

The owner has contacted the last two owners and they all confirmed that the room has always been that way. What would we need to make this official though? Drag the old owners to a solicitor and get them to sign something saying the room has always been used a bedroom?

Unfortunately, there are no drawings what-so-ever.

The way it came up was through the last buyer's (the ones who pulled out) survey of the house in which Countrywide (I'm not going to pass judgement on them here but let's just say I haven't been very impressed with the £260 mortgage valuation we had them do for us) mentioned the loft 'conversion'. When the current owners bought the house they bought it as a 3 bed, no questions asked on any end about building regs sign-off, the loft room was always considered part of the original building fabric...

It's just all so confusing!

chris_m

Hoploz wrote: »

Would there be any way of contacting a previous owner from the 1980's?

Oh dear, must read more slowly - having seen the place described as Victorian I read this as "from the 1890s" and thought you were suggesting a seance

renovate-plymouth

Just as a follow-up in case anyone is interested, building control are writing us a letter saying that due to the age of the loft room the matter of building regulations does not apply and they will therefore never be in a position to take legal action against it.

Other question re the loft though. If we were to ever want to put a cloakroom in there, would we have issues getting that signed off as the rest of the loft doesn't comply with modern building regs? Or would building control then only look at whether or not the cloakroom complies?

Doozergirl

They would only look at the clockroom complying.

You forget that most houses never had building control sign off at all. Even those that do, you'd never be expected to keep the whole house up to regs constantly.

Only new work need to qualify.

societys_child

A cloakroom in the loft? Do you mean a big cupboard or a wardrobe or something?

Don't think it'd need building regs.