Cancel My Direct Debit?

neededausername

bris wrote: »

Timescale would be important here.


If you received the written terms and want to cancel straight away then you would have a case. If you have or are into the contract for say 6 months then you have accepted it.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and so I accept responsibility that I should have queried immediately why the verbal terms were missing. But as the salesperson said I should notify him if I wanted to cancel, I didn't think with speaking to the same person who had given me the terms, that there would be a problem.

As you can appreciate though, the term was regarding cancelling my membership and so isn't something I tried to 'use' at the beginning, hence why it is not until two months later that I've realised there is a problem.

Nevertheless, I'm still not sure that this makes selling me something on false terms acceptable? I'm not looking to sue them, I just want what was agreed.

wealdroam

neededausername wrote: »

Nevertheless, I'm still not sure that this makes selling me something on false terms acceptable? I'm not looking to sue them, I just want what was agreed.

Of course it is not acceptable to sell something on false terms. The problem you now have is actually proving 'what was agreed' at the point of sale. That is why it is always important to read the documentation when you receive it.

None of that helps I know. As you say... hindsight is a wonderful thing.

neededausername

wealdroam wrote: »

Of course it is not acceptable to sell something on false terms. The problem you now have is actually proving 'what was agreed' at the point of sale. That is why it is always important to read the documentation when you receive it.

None of that helps I know. As you say... hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I do have proof though, at least enough under the circumstances; my problem though is that this proof wasn't obtained with consent and so I can't share it with anyone without incriminating myself.

Edit: So this isn't accused of being a "staff post", said proof is a recording of the same salesman outlining and clarifying the terms I'm claiming were made to a potential customer (though not myself) taken a couple of weeks ago.

unholyangel

You cannot be bound by terms you haven't had a chance to become acquainted with before the contract becomes binding.

Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they
have the object or effect of:
(i) irrevocably binding the consumer to terms with which he had no
real opportunity of becoming acquainted before the conclusion of
the contract.

So if you signed (what did you sign btw if not the contract with a copy of the T&C's included?) and they didnt provide the terms until 10 days later.....you shouldnt be bound by those terms as they cannot retrospectively introduce new terms/obligations/requirements.

unholyangel

neededausername wrote: »

I do have proof though, at least enough under the circumstances; my problem though is that this proof wasn't obtained with consent and so I can't share it with anyone without incriminating myself.

Edit: So this isn't accused of being a "staff post", said proof is a recording of the same salesman outlining and clarifying the terms I'm claiming were made to a potential customer (though not myself) taken a couple of weeks ago.

What proof are we talking about here? Incriminating yourself how? Did you break into the centre and steal their cctv? :S

neededausername

unholyangel wrote: »

You cannot be bound by terms you haven't had a chance to become acquainted with before the contract becomes binding.



So if you signed (what did you sign btw if not the contract with a copy of the T&C's included?) and they didnt provide the terms until 10 days later.....you shouldnt be bound by those terms as they cannot retrospectively introduce new terms/obligations/requirements.

That's interesting, thank you for that.

It was I assume a fairly standard 'new joiner' form that I completed with my details, and cost/length of the membership. All of the terms I subsequently received via email were not included on this initial form.

neededausername

unholyangel wrote: »

What proof are we talking about here? Incriminating yourself how? Did you break into the centre and steal their cctv? :S

So far as I understand the law, a conversation that takes place between two people can be recorded for personal use without both parties consent, but should you wish to share it with a third party then you must get permission; which if it only proves they're purposely misselling contracts, I'm not going to get from them.

unholyangel

neededausername wrote: »

That's interesting, thank you for that.

It was I assume a fairly standard 'new joiner' form that I completed with my details, and cost/length of the membership. All of the terms I subsequently received via email were not included on this initial form.

What did the joining form state? As that is what your contract terms would be. What i'd also watch out for is that you haven't agreed to a credit agreement. Gyms sometimes do this and often people arent even aware that they have entered into a finance agreement, they think its just a contract for gym services.

However, be aware that this wont entitle you to cancel FOC (unless you can perhaps prove that you were told you would be able to cancel FOC under certain circumstances), it would just mean the contract reverts to the ordinary position of law.

There was also a small claims case where a woman tried to cancel her gym contract and they chased her for the full remaining amount. Her husband (who was a solicitor or barrister if i remember right) argued it amounted to a financial penalty and in the end, the gym was awarded just a months fees. You could perhaps point this out to them as although small claims cases don't set a precedent, it can be used to support your claim and gives some indication of what the courts would find fair in the circumstances.

neededausername wrote: »

So far as I understand the law, a conversation that takes place between two people can be recorded for personal use without both parties consent, but should you wish to share it with a third party then you must get permission; which if it only proves they're purposely misselling contracts, I'm not going to get from them.

You can make it available to them though - they may change their tune if they find you have proof of the terms you agreed to. And indeed in civil claims (rather than criminal prosecution), judges will consider allowing it to be used in certain circumstances.

unholyangel

btw the case I mentioned above (with the woman cancelling) can be found here:

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/general-news/mother-triumphs-in-legal-fight-over-ending-gym-membership-1-4136768

Can't find the actual judgement but you get the gist.

neededausername

unholyangel wrote: »

What did the joining form state? As that is what your contract terms would be. What i'd also watch out for is that you haven't agreed to a credit agreement. Gyms sometimes do this and often people arent even aware that they have entered into a finance agreement, they think its just a contract for gym services.

However, be aware that this wont entitle you to cancel FOC (unless you can perhaps prove that you were told you would be able to cancel FOC under certain circumstances), it would just mean the contract reverts to the ordinary position of law.

There was also a small claims case where a woman tried to cancel her gym contract and they chased her for the full remaining amount. Her husband (who was a solicitor or barrister if i remember right) argued it amounted to a financial penalty and in the end, the gym was awarded just a months fees. You could perhaps point this out to them as although small claims cases don't set a precedent, it can be used to support your claim and gives some indication of what the courts would find fair in the circumstances.



You can make it available to them though - they may change their tune if they find you have proof of the terms you agreed to. And indeed in civil claims (rather than criminal prosecution), judges will consider allowing it to be used in certain circumstances.

Would it say somewhere within the full T&Cs I've received "credit agreement" if that's what I'd signed? I've checked and it doesn't, so I presume (hope!) that is better?