Illegal Loft conversion

Libra1975

We have FINALLY found a house that we like, however it has a loft conversion room that apparently never had planning permission and in some way contravenes building regulations (I think it's due to fire regulations as there is only a dormer window) In the bumpf from the estate agents it's not included and the current owners bought it with the illegal loft conversion about 5 years ago however you can't miss it it's got proper stairs from the first floor landing to the loft conversion.
What I was wondering is what are the ramifications for buying this property? Will we have to board up the loft conversion entrance? Should the current owners be responsible for this before selling? Will it effect home insurance or building insurance?

Thanks.

theGrinch

its really not as bad as it seems. in fact it could work to your benefit in negotiation. As it is around 5 years old, I believe you could apply for a certificate of lawful use. At the moment, it is just a room. If you were to go through and gain lawfulness use then you could potentially add a bedroom.

the fact it has proper stairs it a real benefit, as many of this unregulated ones don't. the fire escape window would need to be included. This could cost about £750 plus ideally scaffolding. you may also for peace of mind get it electrically inspected.

via your solicitor speak to the vendor regarding what paperwork they have (especially on buying themselves) and ask permission to contact the council regarding it. Maybe arrange an inspection.

it should not materially affect your insurance. if you find it does (and it shouldn't) then ask who the current insurers are.

BobProperty

Libra1975 wrote: »

.....What I was wondering is what are the ramifications for buying this property?

Mortgage based on value without the conversion. Insurance problems as you have already suggested. Fire risks. Structural risks. No one will be prosecuted re Building Regulations or Planning after 5 years, but see later answer.

Libra1975 wrote: »

Will we have to board up the loft conversion entrance?

Bringing it up to the same fire proof standard could be an alternative solution to the various problems, but that rather messes up any access.

Libra1975 wrote: »

Should the current owners be responsible for this before selling?

I like to think so but I'd also bet that "regularisation" will cost £,000s so they won't want to do it, nor may they be in the position to do it. Plus it will all take time.

Libra1975 wrote: »

Will it effect home insurance or building insurance?

I don't see why it wouldn't affect the buildings insurance. The insurer will almost certainly have a condition that the building is properly built and maintained so no Building Regulations is an immediate problem (or a primary get out after an event).
The solution is likely to be that you do not use this room as a "habitable" room and only use it for storage or occasional use for, say, a hobby. Definitely no use as a bedroom. (Besides I wouldn't want that on my conscience in the "worst case scenario").
Have you had a survey done yet? What did the surveyor say?
Have you tried to get insurance quotes? That might help in evaluating the situation too.

serpico

Smart move by the EA not including it in there details, does your motgage lender and solicitor know about it, I would not touch it with a bargepole there are so many important ramifications about loft conversions.

If it breaches building regs the inspectors could force you to fully re-instate the property as it was before the conversion at enormous cost, plus it does not have planning consent but that is the least of your worries, the cottrct building regs cert is the biggy, if if you do go ahead you may never find another mug to buy without the correct paperwork.

Be upfront consult your mortgage lender, solicitor and the buildin inspectors if you really want to buy and save yourself a lot of potential cost and misery.

annie-c

This is a very common thing in my area... lots of houses are sold as , eg 2 bed with boarded loft, including my own. It isn't illegal as far as I know, it just means the room diodn't meet building regs and can't officially be sold as a bedroom. My house came with an indemnity policy that the prev owners had taken out on finding thr room didn't meet building regs and that's that really. All clearly identified in the paperwork and dealt with accordingly.

As to safety, your surveyor will be able to advise you - best to give them a ring as they will say more on the phone than they can advise in a written report. My loft, for example has proper stairs, proper egress window, fire alarm. But one wall was built 2 inches two short of what is required by the regs for ventilation or something. Not ideal for purposes of selling on (it can only ever be sold as 2-bed, not 3 and so buyers needing 3 rooms (unlike me - it's my study) may not view if they do an EA search for properties sorting by bedroom nos). But not illegal and not a disaster

BobProperty

Assuming this is a normal type house, not in a conservation area and not listed. Building Regulations breaches have to be prosecuted within 6 or 12 months, Planning 4 years IIRC, so there's no chance of any action in respect of either of those two problems. The "certificate of lawful use" that the grinch mentioned is a planning permission document, it does not cover Building Regulations.
I would agree with serpico on another point, though. Be upfront with everyone about it and see what they say.
I would "touch it with a bargepole" but there'd be a note on the end of the pole saying "minus £40,000"

annie-c

PS remember that not every loft conversion needs planning permission in which case the 'certificate of lawul use' not relevant. Check with LA to see what permissions are required...

denton6

Hi,it may not actually need planning permission.Our loft was done properly to regulations and we need building regulations which had to be checked out by building department at different stages.We needed two window one that must be of the correct height from the ground to use as a fire escape,Needed to be a certain height also on the stairs up to it.Fire doors and also wired in smoke detectors.They also need to check that beams that are used to strengthen are not removed and are strong enough floor is also got to be strengthen.Sorry they prob needed to do loads more,but we def only need building regs and not planning permission.

serpico

Fourty grand on the end of your bargepole now that's serious food for thought.,

Libra1975

Thank you all for your replies.

"via your solicitor speak to the vendor regarding what paperwork they have (especially on buying themselves)"
They admit they have none they bought it with the conversion and use it as a study but didn't do anything to make it "legal"

"The solution is likely to be that you do not use this room as a "habitable" room and only use it for storage or occasional use for, say, a hobby. Definitely no use as a bedroom. (Besides I wouldn't want that on my conscience in the "worst case scenario").
Have you had a survey done yet? What did the surveyor say?
Have you tried to get insurance quotes? That might help in evaluating the situation too."

We wouldn't use it as a bedroom, probably wouldn't even use it as a study as the house is big enough. We haven't got as far as survey - I wanted to know the legal position before making an offer.

"we need building regulations which had to be checked out by building department at different stages.We needed two window one that must be of the correct height from the ground to use as a fire escape,Needed to be a certain height also on the stairs up to it.Fire doors and also wired in smoke detectors"

I think it was fire regulations it failed in the first place, but as I said we don't really need the extra room so I think at the end of the day as long as we only paid for the price of the house without loft conversion we would be quite happy to take down the stairs and just use it as a posh loft!

diddlydum

Lack of building regulations doesn't mean that the conversion is unsafe, it just means that it wasn't signed off by the council. You should let your conveyancer know about it, as they can then insist that the vendor pays for indemnity insurance, in case you are prosecuted for the lack of building regulations. The insurance would pay out to put the property right.

Most lenders will be happy with indemnity insurance, which typically costs about £100-£200 if the vendor won't pay for it. So it won't affect your mortgage offer.

It's fairly common, and I wouldn't really worry about it, as your survey should flag up any serious structural defects.