Our kids refused time off school during term time - please advice

marisco_2

meritaten wrote: »

its FIVE days! how many days of education do schools waste? I can think of at least five - there is red nose day, children in need day, teddy bear picnic day, Harvest Festival day, and 'school trip day' which is just a jolly to the beach.
perhaps parents should start taking schools to court for days the children receive no education?

You seriously think that schools have time to waste dedicating the whole of the day to these events. They take up a part of it where the children are encouraged to think about and consider different valuable things away from the curriculum. It is all part of enabling the full development of a child.

ViolaLass

meritaten wrote: »

its FIVE days! how many days of education do schools waste? I can think of at least five - there is red nose day lessons still happen, children in need daylessons still happen, teddy bear picnic daydon't know about this one, Harvest Festival daystill learning, and 'school trip day' which is just a jolly to the beach.
perhaps parents should start taking schools to court for days the children receive no education?

On school trips, all the kids are out together rather than one missing the day and having to catch up i.e. be chased/helped by the teacher who has 30 other kids to focus on too.

Tropez

Nicki wrote: »

You may be fined (penalty charge).

You could also be prosecuted, where the maximum sentence is 3 months imprisonment and up to £2,500.

That seems fair and reasonable. Locking up some probably loving parents for three months and potentially harming their financial futures over a holiday.

I had a week off in term-time when I was 12. I also missed the best part of a year through illness at one point during secondary school. Still got mostly A's and A*'s and never had to retake the year I missed.

I wonder, if instead of applying some sort of one-size-fits-all policy based on this assumption that school education is the most important thing in the world for all children (it isn't), would it not be more prudent to undo the insanity of the current system and give schools more leeway to make decisions on whether to authorise an absence based on what they know about the children in question?

If a child is, as the OP described, achieving satisfactory (although I admit that term is subjective) grades and does have a solid attendance record, the damage a week off will do to their education is minimal. However, if a child is underperforming and/or has a shaky attendance record then it would seem quite reasonable to not authorise the absence.

tom9980

meritaten wrote: »

its FIVE days! how many days of education do schools waste? I can think of at least five - there is red nose day, children in need day, teddy bear picnic day, Harvest Festival day, and 'school trip day' which is just a jolly to the beach.
perhaps parents should start taking schools to court for days the children receive no education?

I will pick up on the teddy bear picnic as to most i am sure that is a waste of time at first glance, which is understandable really.

Now my wife would do a much better job at a response to this than me but lets put it all into context shall we. Reception age children first term in school is a typical age to do a teddy bear picnic lesson, indeed my wife does do that lesson after a series of related ones. The lesson is planned and must meet early learning goals otherwise it is indeed a waste of time, let me assure you its a valid and valuable lesson to teach. Do remember these are children who are very young so sitting them down constantly to read and write in their first term will not excite their minds, it will bore them to death and they ultimately may not engage with education well in the future.

She often will choose a book to start as a theme for instance Michael Rosen's going on a bear hunt, often battling to get them to sit still, or to stop calling out, after all if they aren't listening they wont learn will they? so they have to learn even that basic skill. They read the book together and talk about the theme's within it. Often small lessons are planned with drawing so they can learn how to hold a pencil etc and to practice simple written words like their name. An increasing number of children cannot do this because parents are too busy or lazy to teach them very basic things.

They will then plan to go on their own bear hunt and are asked what they should wear? wellies? coats? scarfs? seems obvious to us but they are 4 and 5 years old and their parents have done all that for them. School is about learning to do these things for yourself and at this age it requires repetition in as many subtle and different ways as possible until they do very basic tasks on their own.

Now since it is such a long journey taking a picnic is clearly wise, especially counting how many children they need to feed. Planning on what is appropriate to take and eat on that picnic? Maybe even making the cake in the lesson the day before where measuring ingredients and watching as cooking transforms ingredients into other things! Estimating ingredients required to make sandwich's such as slices of bread. Should we consider that child who has a nut allergy and how do we look after them. Lots of things for them to think about and of course they all help make the picnic basket so learn possibly for the first time how to cut up ingredients and make that sandwich which is often done for them by mum or dad. Heaven forbid we let our kids grow up unable to cook and feed themselves when they fly the nest, something which is increasingly an issue in our society especially with obesity becoming such a problem.

Finally they play games while they go on the bear hunt searching for signs of a bear, looking at things in nature so they can track the bear down like footprints or claw marks. Learning how to stay in groups and work together so they don't get lost, something that will be important when they go on that school trip to a major city in a busy location in 6 months time. Singing songs and recalling things from the story so they can find the bear and have their picnic!

Lots of these things are very subtle and basic to us but they are not to young children with varying abilities, i would love to know how reading, writing, science, maths, cookery, learning to observe, look after others, bonding as a group, singing and having fun are irrelevant and a waste of time for a child's education? of course the ignorant only see teachers having a jolly.

governorjohn

Hi all.
Wouldnt you think that every family could have a flexible week or two off school if only to avoid those ridiculous prices the travel companies and holiday operators charge when they know the kids are on holiday. Perhaps then we`d have some more spare cash for all those Voluntary Contributions !
I mean - would it really damage their education - particulary for any child under 13.

balletshoes

geek84 wrote: »

Hi Folks

Many thanks for your replies.

I have twins aged 13 years old. They are in year 9 at the moment.

The reason for refusal the school gives is - This is not currently an exceptional circumstance

Are you suggesting it is not worth appealing against the decision?

I wouldn't appeal against that decision - because they're right, its a holiday, its not an exceptional circumstance. I'd accept that I may have to pay a fine.

bylromarha

tom9980 wrote: »

Lots of these things are very subtle and basic to us but they are not to young children with varying abilities, i would love to know how reading, writing, science, maths, cookery, learning to observe, look after others, bonding as a group, singing and having fun are irrelevant and a waste of time for a child's education? of course the ignorant only see teachers having a jolly.

And I'm sure your wife, as a professional, will agree with me, a fellow professional, that school does not have the sole rights to teaching children these skills.

And would also agree that, in fact, these skills would be better learned from a parent as the primary carer.

And fining a parent for thinking "I do reading, writing, science, maths, cookery, observing, looking after others, singing and have fun lots with my child all through the year and I have done since they were born - a week of not doing it at school, and continuing to do it while we're on holday, in order that we can have some quality time as a family" is a really really stupid thing to do.

tom9980

bylromarha wrote: »

And I'm sure your wife, as a professional, will agree with me, a fellow professional, that school does not have the sole rights to teaching children these skills.

And would also agree that, in fact, these skills would be better learned from a parent as the primary carer.

And fining a parent for thinking "I do reading, writing, science, maths, cookery, observing, looking after others, singing and have fun lots with my child all through the year and I have done since they were born - a week of not doing it at school, and continuing to do it while we're on holday, in order that we can have some quality time as a family" is a really really stupid thing to do.

Your misquoting me i was simply responding to an individual post and not the OP that suggested those events were not educational, when clearly they can be. Where did i say parents did not do some or all of those things? Unfortunately as you likely know some parents don't do the basics so if the school doesn't pick up the slack who will? and who gets the blame for it when a child cant read or write?

Finally the other post i made in this thread was sympathetic and agreed that parents and children who are unlikely to suffer from a few days off in school time should be allowed to go where it is appropriate to do so.

geek84

Hi Folks

I was just thinking - if we do take the kids out of school with unauthorized absence and pay the fine, would it have a very bad effect on their academic record when selecting the 6th form or college or university they want to attend?

Thanks

FBaby

You seriously think that schools have time to waste dedicating the whole of the day to these events. They take up a part of it where the children are encouraged to think about and consider different valuable things away from the curriculum. It is all part of enabling the full development of a child.

My kids secondary school has an 'activity week' every July where kids picked activities for eac day (and unfortunately some them costly!). This really is the equivalent of a 4 days of fun, ie. holiday. Some of it could be considered education (visits of museum) whilst some is pure entertainement (visit to a theme park), so very much like many holidays. I really cannot see how this no less missing out on days of education than if the kids do these with their parents.

As for talking about waste of money. Well my DD just did her English GCSE and her teacher this year was so appauling in her lack of skill that I had no choice but to pay for a tutor to get her the skills to study for it. I won't go into the details of what that teacher was so poor, but let's say that other English teachers actually offered unofficial sessions during their lunch break to pupils of this teacher who wanted some support. I do feel that her lack of teaching skills has lost me money through no choice but to employ someone else to do what she was paid to do. Saying that, I never looked at it that way. It is just the way it is, sometimes you get good teachers and sometimes you don't.