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Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

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  • NedS
    NedS Posts: 4,690 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    One of the arguments for more renewables is that increasing electrification will increase demand, soaking up all those green electrons in the grid. Increasing use of AI / data centres (and EVs) are the most commonly cited use of all this abundant electricity, so I was interested to read this BBC article about a new quantum computer at Harwell, Oxfordshire which uses less than a domestic kettle (~3kW)

    He [Dr Ballance] said a conventional supercomputer "might use the output of a small power plant to power it".

    "Our quantum computer uses less power than an electric kettle.

    "The systems we're building next year, which will outperform ... the largest supercomputers humanity will ever build, will still use less power than just one server rack in a standard data centre."

    Once they invent highly efficient solar paint that can recharge an EV from daylight, maybe we won't need huge amounts of electricity on the grid after all?
    Our green credentials: 12kW Samsung ASHP for heating, 7.2kWp Solar (South facing), Tesla Powerwall 3 (13.5kWh), Net exporter
  • Magnitio
    Magnitio Posts: 1,222 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    NedS said:
    One of the arguments for more renewables is that increasing electrification will increase demand, soaking up all those green electrons in the grid. Increasing use of AI / data centres (and EVs) are the most commonly cited use of all this abundant electricity, so I was interested to read this BBC article about a new quantum computer at Harwell, Oxfordshire which uses less than a domestic kettle (~3kW)

    He [Dr Ballance] said a conventional supercomputer "might use the output of a small power plant to power it".

    "Our quantum computer uses less power than an electric kettle.

    "The systems we're building next year, which will outperform ... the largest supercomputers humanity will ever build, will still use less power than just one server rack in a standard data centre."

    Once they invent highly efficient solar paint that can recharge an EV from daylight, maybe we won't need huge amounts of electricity on the grid after all?
    Meanwhile, yet more huge data centres are being built to consume vast quantities of energy and water...

    6.4kWp (16 * 400Wp REC Alpha) facing ESE + 5kW Huawei inverter + 10kWh Huawei battery. Buckinghamshire.
  • debitcardmayhem
    debitcardmayhem Posts: 12,933 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Magnitio said:
    NedS said:
    One of the arguments for more renewables is that increasing electrification will increase demand, soaking up all those green electrons in the grid. Increasing use of AI / data centres (and EVs) are the most commonly cited use of all this abundant electricity, so I was interested to read this BBC article about a new quantum computer at Harwell, Oxfordshire which uses less than a domestic kettle (~3kW)

    He [Dr Ballance] said a conventional supercomputer "might use the output of a small power plant to power it".

    "Our quantum computer uses less power than an electric kettle.

    "The systems we're building next year, which will outperform ... the largest supercomputers humanity will ever build, will still use less power than just one server rack in a standard data centre."

    Once they invent highly efficient solar paint that can recharge an EV from daylight, maybe we won't need huge amounts of electricity on the grid after all?
    Meanwhile, yet more huge data centres are being built to consume vast quantities of energy and water...

    I am interested to know how they consume the water?
    4.8kWp 12x400W Longhi 9.6 kWh battery Giv-hy 5.0 Inverter, WSW facing Essex . Aint no sunshine ☀️ Octopus gas fixed dec 24 @ 5.74 tracker again+ Octopus Intelligent Flux leccy
  • Magnitio
    Magnitio Posts: 1,222 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    Magnitio said:
    NedS said:
    One of the arguments for more renewables is that increasing electrification will increase demand, soaking up all those green electrons in the grid. Increasing use of AI / data centres (and EVs) are the most commonly cited use of all this abundant electricity, so I was interested to read this BBC article about a new quantum computer at Harwell, Oxfordshire which uses less than a domestic kettle (~3kW)

    He [Dr Ballance] said a conventional supercomputer "might use the output of a small power plant to power it".

    "Our quantum computer uses less power than an electric kettle.

    "The systems we're building next year, which will outperform ... the largest supercomputers humanity will ever build, will still use less power than just one server rack in a standard data centre."

    Once they invent highly efficient solar paint that can recharge an EV from daylight, maybe we won't need huge amounts of electricity on the grid after all?
    Meanwhile, yet more huge data centres are being built to consume vast quantities of energy and water...

    I am interested to know how they consume the water?
    It does partly explain the use of water in the article - evaporative cooling.
    6.4kWp (16 * 400Wp REC Alpha) facing ESE + 5kW Huawei inverter + 10kWh Huawei battery. Buckinghamshire.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 15,441 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Latest Carbon Commentary newsletter from Chris Goodall.

    Even by Chris' usual standards, this week's news is a very mixed bag.

    1, Hydrogen storage. Salt caverns will probably be the cheapest way of storing hydrogen. These are made by drilling into natural layers of geologic salt underneath impermeable rocks. The salt is then dissolved by water until large caves are created. Utility Uniper announced an agreement with British Salt, a producer of almost a million tonnes a year, to drill two new trial wells in north-west England to test if they can be used for hydrogen storage. Geologic conditions in the Cheshire area are near-perfect. If successful, the venture might be extended to 13 wells, potentially to store 400 GWh of hydrogen that can be pumped in and out as required. British Salt will sell the salt that that is extracted from the cavern. Unsurprisingly, Uniper is asking the ‘UK Government to develop a bespoke business model to bring forward this first of a kind technology.’ I suppose this means a large subsidy, although the world’s first ever hydrogen storage caverns were developed in the UK in the 1970s without financial help.

    2, Offshore wind. The first French floating wind farm was commissioned in June and the first turbine at a second location was installed last week, also in the Mediterranean. The impetus behind French floating offshore wind was reinforced last week by EU approval of the €11bn budget for 3 large farms off Brittany and in the Mediterranean, totalling about 1.5 GW. The developers of these new sites will benefit from ‘contracts for difference’, a means of guaranteeing the price that the wind power will achieve. Twelve candidate companies have pre-qualified for the tender for the farms. By contrast, Germany said that its latest auction for offshore wind had received no bids and commentary was gloomy about the causes of this failure. But the core reason for the differences between France and Germany lies in the auction process: France guarantees a price for electricity produced while in Germany the bidder has to accept the market value and also pay a fee to acquire the rights to develop the farm. Auction design is the single most important determinant of whether renewables competitions work.

    3. Smart location of batteries and electrolysers in Germany. An academic study said that electrolysers for converting electricity into hydrogen and batteries would need to be located in different places. Batteries should be concentrated in southern Germany, which has good solar potential and will need day-to-night storage. Electrolysers should be focused on northern Germany with better access to wind power (and better capacity for hydrogen storage in salt caverns, see note 1). Perhaps the most interesting result from the study was the calculation that 35% of all German renewables production in 2050 would have to be stored for later use.

    4, Attitudes to EVs in Europe. Zeekr, a Geely offshoot, commissioned a large scale opinion survey across Europe that demonstrates growing interest in owning EVs, and increasing receptiveness to buying Chinese brands. ‘Asked if they were more open to buying a Chinese EV than they were 12 months ago, 38% of respondents said that were, while only 17% were not’. Those already owning an EV were more open to a Chinese-made car, with 53% indicating a more receptive attitude than a year ago. Age matters: 62% of 35-44 year olds said that they were interested in owning an EV of any sort by the end of 2028, whereas even by 2035 only 45% of those aged 55+ wanted one.

    5, Green ammonia using surplus wind. The Financial Times reported that almost 40% of wind power in northern Scotland was curtailed in the first half of 2025, largely because of poor electricity links into England. It may be no coincidence that Statkraft, Europe’s largest renewables developer, announced it had leased the land for a 400 MW green ammonia plant on the Shetland Isles, off the north coast of Scotland. Unlike the news about curtailment, London newspapers did not cover this story although it is of comparable importance. The company said ‘The construction of schemes like Shetland Hydrogen Project 2 will allow excess renewable power that cannot be utilised by the grid to be transformed into hydrogen’ and then to ammonia. Statkraft has 3 new wind farms in development on Shetland with a total capacity of about 250 MW, meaning that its proposed ammonia plant will also be able to accept electricity from other wind farms that otherwise would not be used. One solution to the shortages of electricity grid capacity that are slowing the growth of renewables is to locate energy-intensive industries, such as ammonia production, where temporary surpluses will result in frequent low costs for electricity.

    6, Synthetic fuels for data centres. Ineratec, the German producer of synthetic fuels for aviation and other uses, said it had entered into an agreement to supply diesel for the German data centres powered by Rolls Royce backup generators. As the two companies commented, data centres will be a market that will particularly value low carbon alternatives to conventional diesel fuel, helping to build sales from Ineratec’s pilot plant in Frankfurt.

    7, Biochar. An academic team argued that collecting liquid and solid human wastes at sewage processing plants and using them to make biochar to be applied to cropland could reduce global agricultural nitrogen needs by 17% or more. (Biochar is what remains after organic matter is heated to high temperatures in the absence of oxygen. It will usually resemble charcoal). This is a difficult subject to discuss but the world urgently needs to work out how to create a circular route to replenishing the nutrients in soil. Biochar is almost certainly part of the solution. But, as the researchers say, the economics will only work if some form carbon taxation raises the price of virgin fertilisers.

    8, ‘Gold’ hydrogen. The earth probably contains more hydrogen deposits than natural gas. Commercial exploration for these resources is starting. London-based H2Au obtained permission to drill in parts of Kansas near where it has been conducting successful trial drilling. The company says it is in ‘advanced discussions’ with nearby refineries and other potential customers for its future production. As H2Au says, this form of hydrogen satisfies those in the US who support the ‘drill, baby, drill’ approach as well as those seeking to reduce emissions.

    9, Vertical farming. The vertical farming industry has seen a long list of financial collapses. Aerofarms, the leading ‘microgreens’ supplier based in Virginia, went into Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2023 but gave us better news this month by announcing it has now refinanced its existing operations and had raised the initial funds for a second large farm. Investors include Ingka, part of the IKEA group. Aerofarms has been operational since 2004 and uses a patented aeroponic technology that spreads nutrients in a water mist around the bare roots of a wide variety of young plants. These vegetables deliver very dense nutrition to consumers. It’s reasonable to be sceptical about the economics of indoor vertical farming but the 2025 European and North American droughts demonstrate the potential value of developing farming technologies that use less than 10% of the water of conventional agriculture.

    10, Datacentres and cost increases in electricity. (This is a June 2025 story which I missed but seems important, and didn’t get much coverage in Europe). Monitoring Analytics is a subsidiary of PJM, the largest transmission system operator in the US. It produced analysis suggesting that the extra demand from data centres adds $9.3 bn to the costs of ensuring that enough electricity is available on peak summer days. (These are called ‘capacity payments). What does this figure imply? The addition of data centre demand has added about 1.2 cents to the cost of every kilowatt hour of electricity transmitted through the PJM system. This burden is incurred by all users, although the single cause of the extra cost is solely the new data centres because otherwise demand would probably be falling.

    11, Methane capture from cows. Methane levels have risen sharply in the last decade, now reaching about 2 parts per million in the atmosphere. The causes are not completely certain although growing levels of escape from natural gas wells look a likely culprit. Cattle are also very important contributors. Danish/US company Ambient Carbon disclosed the results of a test capturing the methane from the air in a 250 cow ventilated shed near Odense in Denmark. Concentrations ranged from 4 to 44 ppm, far lower levels than have ever been successfully extracted with other technologies. Ambient Energy claims 90% methane removal as well capture of ammonia and other gases. This is an important result, welcomed by Ambient’s dairy industry backers, but I’m sceptical about whether the energy requirements for this process could ever be sufficiently low to make it financially viable.

    Thanks for reading Carbon Commentary newsletter!
    Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 15,441 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Big British battery begins business boperations. [I may have cheated at the end there, but I think I got away with it.]

    [Note - It's 300MW/600MWh.]

    Statera connects 300MW Thurrock battery system

    Statera Energy has energised one of the UK’s largest battery storage sites, the 300MW/600MW(sic) Thurrock Storage project in Essex.

    The facility can power up to 680,000 homes for two hours and deliver its full output within seconds, according to the developer.

    Located close to London, the site will provide rapid-response capacity across the capital and the South-East, supporting grid stability and energy security.
    Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • gefnew
    gefnew Posts: 936 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 15,441 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Folk may remember Polar Night Energy and their sand battery. This stores heat when there is excess RE. The first one was 0.2MW/8MWh.

    They've now completed a larger unit which is 1MW/100MWh, with a ~90% round trip efficiency. [But remember this is a heat battery, it's not releasing electricty. Perhaps more akin to Economy7 and storage heaters.]

    Finnish City Inaugurates 1 MW/100 MWh Sand Battery

    As we reported when the first prototype was unveiled three years ago, the idea of a sand battery began with two Finnish engineers, Markku Ylönen and Tommi Eronen. The concept is simplicity itself. Make a really big pile of sand. Heat it with excess renewable electricity to around 500°C (932°F), then use that heat later to heat homes, factories, even swimming pools. They say the sand can stay hot for 3 months or more. The pair have founded Polar Night Energy, which constructed a prototype consisting of 100 tons of sand inside what looks like a silo in the town of Kankaanpää.
    The battery is a 42 foot tall, 50 foot wide steel cylinder filled with 2,000 tons of crushed stone. According to Fast Company, when extra renewable electricity is available, the system uses it to heat up the crushed stone, where it is stored until needed. Then the heat from the battery travels to other buildings through a system of pipes filled with hot water. Each building has its own equipment to distribute the heat to radiators, floor heaters, or other heating devices.
    Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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