Negotiating Price

matto

I suspect you stand to lose more than you could gain by opting to try and renegotiate, i.e. all the fees you've so far paid. You risk the sellers opting to proceed with one of the other offerors through fear of being gazundered later.

Does a £5k reduction in the price mean you'll be able to afford to get the work done? I doubt it. The bank will simply lend you £5k less.

I don't think these are problems that have to be sorted out immediately and therefore if I was the seller in this instance I'd be reluctant to offer more than a token reduction.

yellowkylie

HI, thanks for eveyones replies so far. First of all I would like to point out that I am not panicking as some of you seems to be suggesting, I am just asking what other people have done in similar situation.

The surveyer has said that he has good reason to suspect the presense of a "serious defect" or "essentail repair" but obviously not being a specialist in electrics and heating etc he couldn't ascertain the true extent of the problems.

Therefore i don't think I should just take things too lightly. I don't think this is a bog standard statement found in all surveys of properties of this age.

Keep the replies coming, I will keep you posted with the progress.

B

telfordwhite

From someone who struggles to understand the psychology of house buying heres my tuppence worth:

Try to put yourself in the sellers position. How would you feel if you were in their shoes?

It may be worth asking the question but if I were they I would stick to my guns. They have a desirable property with several other potential buyers and will feel they are in a strong bargaining position.

yellowkylie

I think they would be stupid to think that any potentail buyers wouldn't flag up the same questions and I am sure they are bein just a thorough with the house they are buying.

If they say no they say no!!

Nicki

Doozergirl wrote: »

Most vendors would not pull out on you for trying - with all due respect to Nicki, she has been through quite an unusual set of circumstances and whilst I would have done exactly what she did in that situation, yours is a very different one and would be approached differently.

I appreciate I am being particularly tetchy due to my own recent nightmare, however other vendors could react in the same way. OP needs to be aware of the risks before they make a final decision. It doesn't sound like that they could afford to risk losing their search and survey fees if they can't buy this house.

Maybe I have misunderstood the first post. I thought (s)he was saying:

1. that there weren't enough power sockets in the house and because it had been wired some time ago it didn't comply with 2007 regulations.

If that is the case, putting in some extra sockets will cost pounds. Unless it is dangerous, I wouldn't see the need to rewire. The regulations change every few years but just because you don't comply with the most recent ones doesn't mean your house is unsafe or that there is any problem with living there or selling it on. By way of personal example, when we had a new bathroom fitted recently the sparks told us our existing wiring didn't comply with current regs. This was because the rad in the bathroom was not earthed to the floor! I've never ever heard of anyone being electrocuted because they have a radiator in their bathroom, and although it is now earthed because we were having other work done at the time, it would never have occurred to me to call someone in to do this just because I'd read in the paper or elsewhere that this was now a requirement for new installations.

OP has said in one of his more recent posts that the surveyor says there is a serious issue. I'm confused why he hasn't mentioned this earlier. Did this come up in a subsequent phone conversation with the surveyor? If there is any genuine problem with the wiring that does make the situation different, but if I were the vendor I would want OP to give chapter and verse about what this is. Simply saying I wanted extra sockets and that the house hadn't been rewired lately wouldn't be enough to get me to drop the price, especially if I had other good offers.

2. that the rads didn't have thermostatic valves. These are the things on rads that let you have them on at either full or half power or just off aren't they? Again these cost pounds to fit. We have them on our rads and they are the biggest pain tbh as they stick every now and again and the rad gets stuck at the power you have selected. If you want to vary the temp in the house its far easier just to adjust the main thermostat of the boiler surely or switch the rads off in the rooms you aren't using?

If OP wants to risk it (and as I say I personally wouldn't in their shoes) then (s)he needs to make their very best case as to why the house needs work doing to it. If its presented to the vendors in the way its been described here though (particularly in the early posts) then I can't see the vendors biting to be honest. If the survey actually says in terms that there is a serious fault with the electrics though (or that it is positively dangerous), then OP should show this to the vendors to help their case.

Doozergirl

Hi Nicky

"The Electrical installations appear to be the original wiring etc and there is inadequate number of powerpoints for modern day living - it also seems likely that the circuitary earthing won't comply with current regulations and it is possible that the house will need fully rewiring!!!!!!"

Obviously the number of plug sockets is a desire, not a need and surveyors will point out things like this too, but the rest of that does sound like the surveyor has some real concerns. They are not qualified electricians and therefore will always be non-commital to some degree, but they are generally talking about an aged, 30 odd year old wiring system which doesn't appear to have been upgraded at any point, not just something that doesn't comply with latest regs.

The radiator issue is less of an issue, yes, which is why I think I have said that reports need to obtained and wants and needs should be separated before any renegotiation takes place. What should be presented to the vendor is not the survey, but a full report (and quote) from an electrical engineer.

I feel that further investigation is necessary and that renegotiation may be a possibility. I do not feel that the OP would be unreasonable in renegotiating if essential works needed carrying out - which in a property of that age doesn't sound an impossibilty.

If I'm honest, I am also surprised that a house with many offers was simply sold to the OP at asking price with no hint of a bidding war. I wonder whether the EA was being entirely honest and I would probably ask to go and visit the property with the electrician to establish from the vendor how many offers there were exactly.

yellowkylie

I didn't realise I would get so many people rattled lol. The specialists are going in on Thurs so will keep ya posted. I do believe the house hasn't been marketed to reflect the state of central heating and electrics, as when I told the EA we were concerned about certain aspects of our survey she said " can't see that its a modern property" So did they even ask these questions with the vendor originally I don't know but probably not??

I think they probably asked has it got central heating and that was that. Modern property and 1970s in the same sentence does make me chuckle though, I will go in with flares and platforms to set the mood next time.

I am prepared to show EA certain parts of survey and specialist reports to illustrate where we are coming from but don't agree they need to see everything at the end of the day we have paid good money for the survey. If they wanna see everything they can pay like every1 else.

:rolleyes:

Doozergirl

I agree about modern property and the 1970s :rotfl:

If it were the original boiler unit being discussed, I think most people would keel over!

cats!

I would negotiate on price, but be careful because if a lower offer is accepted the solicitor has to inform the mortgage company.

Depending on the % of LTV they might lower their mortgage offer to you - and you have to plug the difference!

Nicki

yellowkylie wrote: »

I am prepared to show EA certain parts of survey and specialist reports to illustrate where we are coming from but don't agree they need to see everything at the end of the day we have paid good money for the survey. If they wanna see everything they can pay like every1 else.

:rolleyes:

No one said you had to give your survey away for free! What was said was that the way that you have described the issues doesn't make them sound very serious, and that you need to make your very best case to the vendors. The best way to do this is to show them the relevant bit of the survey. If you don't, you can hardly be surprised if they don't believe you when you say this is an issue! As the vendors are selling the house and you are hopefully buying it, what benefit do you think they are going to get from seeing your survey? Why should they pay good money out to decide whether to drop the price for you? Why are you being so defensive about letting them see it?

I really think that a key reason why buying and selling a house is so stressful, is because people get entrenched in this kind of unreasonableness. Everyone is out to get a house as cheaply as they can, and most don't care much about the tactics they use to do so. No one plays it straight down the line in terms of disclosing relevant facts, whether that's their true position vis a vis chain and mortgage requirements, what the survey has disclosed, or when they can or want to move. What is wrong with a cards on table approach and a fair and honest negotiation where everyone can walk away with their heads held high at the end of the day feeling they behaved well and honourably?

Go for it if you want, yellowkylie and good luck. However your straw poll on here shows that most people who have posted so far would not agree to drop the price, and I am not the only one who has said I would refuse to sell to you if you tried it. I haven't worked out the percentages but if this is a representative sample of how people would react in this situation, tbh your odds don't look too hot! With luck you'll be buying one of Doozergirl's properties though as she's much more reasonable than me just at the moment