Backdating tenancy agreement

lrb_2

Hello everyone,

It's a long post, so please bear with me.

I own a flat which has being let out to a couple since Oct 2012.
After an initial fixed tenancy they are now on a periodic tenancy.

I am moving back to the flat and already gave them notice to vacate the property by the end of July. ( all by the book )

Now the problem is that they are trying to buy a property. The first time it fell through . They've put an offer on another property and are hoping to complete before the moving date.

They have a little daughter who has been living in India for the last year. They want to bring her back to England during the summer so she can acclimatise to the weather before winter.

To apply for her visa they have asked me to create and backdate a tenancy agreement which would finish at the agreed moving out date.

They are good tenants and I want to help them but I am a bit concerned about it.

Am I right to think that if I create and backdate a tenancy agreement to end at the same date of the notice given it will invalidate the notice already given?

He has suggested to give me notice instead, but I would want that before I do the backdated tenancy agreement which I guess it won't be legal.

As the moving out date is 31st of July, it will be too short a period for me to give them notice again.

I told him I'd do a letter instead but he is begging me for the agreement which has more weight and I know it will help with the visa application.

What would you do?

Thanks,

Lx

pmlindyloo

I think they (and perhaps you) are a little confused. Apologies if I have got the wrong end of the stick, so to speak!

From what I am understanding they need a valid tenancy agreement to get a visa.

If I am correct, then the original tenancy agreement should suffice as when the fixed period ends it automatically reverts to a statutory tenancy and is therefore valid under the same terms.

Have I misunderstood?

An explanation here:

http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2013/08/05/why-a-periodic-tenancy-is-a-new-tenancy/

G_M

pmlindy - I think you've understood, but it may well be true that Immigration and/or the Embassy either don't understand Periodic Tenancies and/or can't be sure it still exists since there is no dated paperwork confirming its existance one way or the other.

Even some BTL mortgage lenders take this attitude ("we want to see a current fixed term agreement").

Irb - it's a tricky one. Strictly speaking, the act of creating a valid tenancy, whether with a back-dated start date or otherwise, would indeed invalidate a S21 Notice (assuming it were challanged).

But I understand your wish to assist.

If you created a 6 month tenancy with start date 1st Feb & end date 31st July, and both you and the tenant(s) signed and dated it, say 25th Jan, you could 'pretend' it had been signed back in Jan.

Your S21 would then be valid (assuming everything else about it was valid ie deposit, 2 calender months etc), provided the 'pretend' agreement was never questioned.

The risk would be if the tenants later contested the S21 on the grounds you had in reality created/signed the new agreement in June, not Jan, despite their dated signature on the agreement.

If a court believed their version of events the S21 would be dismissed. If the court took the view that no LL would do such a scurrilous thing, and no tenant would have put an erroneous date on the agreement, you'd be fine.......

thesaint

No good deed goes unpunished.

Saying that, I would respond to a letter from the tenant stating that they had lost their previous tenancy agreement, and they wanted to borrow my copy to make a photocopy of it.

princeofpounds

To apply for her visa they have asked me to create and backdate a tenancy agreement which would finish at the agreed moving out date.

You have to ask them specifically why they are doing this. It should not be necessary, they already hold a perfectly valid tenancy. (I agree there are understanding issues in bureaucracy, but you should find out what they actually are before creating documents).


And yes, it could mess up your S21, technically-speaking. There may be workarounds but it depends on you trusting them to some degree.

G_M

thesaint wrote: »

No good deed goes unpunished.

Saying that, I would respond to a letter from the tenant stating that they had lost their previous tenancy agreement, and they wanted to borrow my copy to make a photocopy of it.

Good idea - it adds additional signed evidence that the agreement was in fact created in Jan. Make sure any such letter is signed. Also make sure that the agreement you give them is signed/dated!

pmlindyloo

The other thing you, or rather your tenants, should check out is whether a tenancy agreement is a necessary requirement for the visa.

There has been some changes to the evidence required in the last few years.

eddddy

Is it just me misunderstanding, or is this creating a false document...
...to facilitate deception in a visa application?

@lrb - if an Entry Clearance Officer decides to double check the tenancy agreement and phones you, would you be happy to confirm the 'false' details? Will you have rehearsed your story with the applicant, to make sure you both say the same thing?

(Or have I been watching too many episodes of UK Border Force on daytime tv?)

G_M

eddddy wrote: »

Is it just me misunderstanding, or is this creating a false document...
...to facilitate deception in a visa application?

@lrb - if an Entry Clearance Officer decides to double check the tenancy agreement and phones you, would you be happy to confirm the 'false' details? Will you have rehearsed your story with the applicant, to make sure you both say the same thing?

(Or have I been watching too many episodes of UK Border Force on daytime tv?)

No - you seem to have understood edddy.

(I think even one episode would be too many....)

nzseries1

Having dealt with the UK Border Agency, I can understand the tenants' frustration.

eddddy wrote: »

@lrb - if an Entry Clearance Officer decides to double check the tenancy agreement and phones you, would you be happy to confirm the 'false' details? Will you have rehearsed your story with the applicant, to make sure you both say the same thing?

Surely, the correct response if you are called by the Officer is: "sure! I can't remember the dates offhand, but let me just go and get the tenancy agreement to remind myself..."

Kynthia

The point is they have a tenancy so that isn't a deception. If the OP is uncomfortable perhaps they could write and sign a document that confirms the current SPT with the tenants and when it started.

It could sound official, saying the OP is the landlord of property blah blah blah, the tenants moved into the property on Xxxxx under an AST, when the fixed term ended, that an SPT began with the same terms as stated by the Housing Act blah blah blah. Then by signing it and the tenant signing it there's no need to backdate and no effect on the S21.