UKPC Parking Charge should i pay?

chas5671

I hope this is ok to raise a new thread. I have read various posts some recent and some older and realise that perhaps the position may have changed as to how to deal with these things and I cannot find a scenario similar to mine. Albeit that the circumstances of which may not matter. But here goes:

I received a parking charge from UKPC for 'Parked for longer than the maximum period permitted.' Again £100 or £60 if paid early.
This is in a private residential area where I was invited by and visiting friends. I parked correctly in the visitor bay, displayed their visitor permit clearly which I have done many times before. However, where I parked next to the bay on the wall, there is a notice which has in small print a clock icon which says something along the lines of '48 hour maximum stay (no return within 14 days in visitors bay)' The no return bit is in brackets. (There are 3 other signs nearby with no mention of this and one is virtually identical.)
I was not aware of this, my friends didn't mention it. The ticket is in total for a 24 minute breach.

Do I ignore it? Do I appeal? This seems such an unfair situation and extortionate amount to pay. The only grounds I have for appeal if any would be that the signs are not all consistent.

The only other concern is of course if my friends I was visiting would become unfairly harassed as it was their permit that I was displaying although the photographic evidence is not zoomed in on that so I doubt they would be able to contact them.

Any advice would be appreciated. Many Thanks

Captain_Leaky

When did you get the ticket? (date?) Was it a windscreen ticket or not?

Captain_Krunch

You don't ignore. You have plenty of grounds for appeal other than poor signage. Read the newbies sticky. Don't do anything yet but wait for ukpc to contact you if you've just received the ticket. They will pursue you so dont worry about your friends being harassed.

chas5671

Thank you both.

I got the ticket two days ago. It was on my windscreen.

Where is the newbies sticky please? Sorry I am new to this forum.

Captain_Krunch

chas5671 wrote: »

Thank you both.

I got the ticket two days ago. It was on my windscreen.

Where is the newbies sticky please? Sorry I am new to this forum.

On the main page just above this thread or alternatively here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822


Not all the information is relevant so skip to the relevant headings.

chas5671

An Update: I appealed to UKPC and they upheld the charge but I need advice on whether to appeal to POPLA. Basically they say the charge was correctly issued but i don't feel they answered all of my points and that of course it is unfair especially the exorbitant amount.

In response to the following points:

1. 'The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss. It is exorbitant when compared to local parking charges issued by the Council. Therefore I feel it is not justified. Especially as in this case, it is based in a residential area and not subject to car parking charges.'

They replied that there was a recent case Parking Eye Ltd vs Beavis to summarise that the charge is not extravagant and unconscionable which is on POPLA's website and see money supermarkets article 'judges rule excessive fine is fair'

But my question is does this relate to ALL charges i.e for residential areas as well as retail parks? as this case was a retail park re overstaying in public car parks, mine was private residential area and therefore can I still argue this point?, I quote ""Although the principal object of the charge was to deter overstaying, it was neither improper in its purpose nor manifestly excessive in amount, having regard to the level of charges imposed by local authorities and others for overstaying in public car parks.

"It was in his [the county court judge's] view commercially justifiable, both from the point of view of the Pension Fund [the car park is owned by British Airways Pension Fund] and ParkingEye and from the point of view of motorists at large."

2. My query was that the signs were not clear as usually a limit on parking is in bold or larger text. The sign in question was almost identical to the other one for residents, the only difference was an additional icon of a clock with in much smaller text some in brackets referring to over staying and non return within 14 days.

They did not address this complaint fully only stating that the car was parked next to the sign.

3. my reference to Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations.

They replied it is not possible to respond to this allegation as it was not specified in any way in which the notices do not comply. In any event none of the notices they say fail to comply.

4 My reference to 'There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract is denied.'

The reply is clear consideration on the part of the driver in the promise not to park for more than 48 hours or return within 14 days......and again that the UKPC provided consideration in the provision of a parking space. Acceptance indicated when the driver parked on site.

As I see it my only grounds to appeal to POPLA is under the following condition:

'The vehicle was not improperly parked: e.g. that the vehicle was not parked where stated on the parking charge notice; that you believe you were still within the time you paid for; that the voucher was clearly displayed or that the conditions were not properly signed.'
My case would be solely on the not properly signed.

The other grounds below:
'The parking charge (ticket) exceeded the appropriate amount: e.g. that you are being asked to pay the wrong amount for the parking charge or that the charge has already been paid.'
I assume would fall into where I feel the amount is excessive £100 for a 23 minute window where the vehicle returned within the 14 days on a private residential estate again going back to unconscionable and exorbitant sum put into question re the parking eye vs Beavis case.

Sorry to write such a long message.

In short, do I have grounds to appeal? Is it worth a try? Also if I do appeal and it is refused can I still pay a reduced amount or make an offer rather than it go to court?

Redx

plenty of grounds to appeal

no contract with landowner

poor signage

NTK not compliant with POFA 2012

Not a gpeol

the Beavis case isnt over, its at the Supreme Court in 17 days time

draft up a popla appeal, check the popla code for validity and expiry

get your draft checked on here

submit

win at popla , case closed, nothing to pay

doesnt matter what they say, they are biased in their own favour , all that matters is a popla code

base your draft on this one, altering it accordingly

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5231157

make NOT A GPEOL the last point, followed by the words in blue about Beavis from the newbies sticky thread

bear in mind they wont accept mitigation, only legal challenges and legal arguments

also, try to get a landowner cancellation too

chas5671

Thanks I did also when I appealed to them question the following:

There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.

Their reply that their contract with the landowner is confidential but can provide evidence of authority. Which they will provide to any assessors

I will write to the landowner too,. Thank you

Redx

yes, you can query what you like with a PPC, but they have no obligation or compunction to answer your queries

but if they wish to win at popla, they do have to prove it to a legally trained assessor, all of it , anything you have queried or challenged

so in your popla appeal you will be

querying this contract and asking for an unredacted copy to be provided to popla, no witness statements , so they will have to prove this to popla , or lose

querying the signage , they will have to prove it complies, or lose

querying the NTK and pofa 2012 , they will have to prove it is compliant , or lose

querying the NOT A GPEOL , they will have to either prove the case, or wait for the Supreme Court decision in about November this year, or lose , or lose anyway

plus any other legal arguments , which is why I linked that recent popla appeal you can read and adapt for yourself

plus if the landowner cancels the charge, its game over , end of story

and if popla cancel the charge , its game over , end of story

with a decent popla appeal, like I linked you to, its should be a slam dunk win for you

chas5671

I have emailed the landowner. Will put a case together to appeal to POPLA adapting the appeal you have linked. I have 28 days from the 30th June so there is time.

Thanks again for your help. Much appreciated!

The_Deep

Quoting Beavis is only relevant when the circumstances are the same. Mr Beavis overstayed in a busy commercial car park which Parking Eye paid the Landowner £30,000 a year to farm. He also ignored all their letters.

They have no financial interest in this private residential car park, and there is no commercial justification for this charge. They do not have a contract with you and would be insane to take you to court, where they have form

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

They will not win this argument with PoPLA