Questions to ask re Care Homes ?

Errata

Don't panic. If dad can understand at the time that he signs a new POA what it means and what the consequences are, it doesn't matter that he couldn't understand it the day before or the day after he signs. Your dad's old age psychiatrist can be a great help with this.

soolin

Sorry I have another question..The brief talk I had with ss about fees suggested that they would pay the first 12 weeks which I would then owe them..but what happens after that? No one has told me anything, nor have I had anything other than the briefest talk with SS..if they continue paying until the house is sold will I have to pay interest on the 'debt'?

Also, do I have any argument to suggest that instead of selling the house at a knock down price that I use the cash Dad has to refurbish the house and let it out. On paper with dad's pensions, attendance allowance and rental income we can virtually cover the fees..and doing that would mean that we can keep dad at the home of his choice for many more years, instead of running out of funds in approx 8 years.

Lastly, a nurse friend said she thought Dad should have an assessment that goes to the NHS? to see what level low/medium/high needs he has with a view to the PCT paying very small part of the fees. How do I arrange this, and would it be the PCT for the home he is moving to or the PCT for the area he has left?

Lastly, I have made complaints now about the way the solicitor has handled the power of attorney thing. The senior partner at head office has said that whilst the form might be wrong the intent of the document should be clear enough for it to stand as a POA. He has asked me to take it into him on Wednesday and he'll see what can be done to save having to draw up new forms (on the correct paper with the correct terminology).. However none of this is going to be quick so I stillc an't access any of dad's money.

Sorry again for rambling..as you can tell I've been worrying again. Dad should move today as long as there aren't anymore last minute hitches. So fingers crossed.

Biggles

soolin wrote: »

Sorry I have another question..The brief talk I had with ss about fees suggested that they would pay the first 12 weeks which I would then owe them..but what happens after that?

The first twelve weeks is the period during which the Council will disregard the house value and only assess your father on his other assets. This will determine his ability to pay and you won't owe the Council anything if he is assessed as entitled to a contribution from them.

After 12 weeks, they will take the value of the house into account, which will presumably mean he will then get no assistance with fees. But, until it is sold, they will take care of the fees if he doesn't have sufficient funds and it is those fees that you will owe them. This is interest-free.

Lastly, I have made complaints now about the way the solicitor has handled the power of attorney thing. The senior partner at head office has said that whilst the form might be wrong the intent of the document should be clear enough for it to stand as a POA. He has asked me to take it into him on Wednesday and he'll see what can be done to save having to draw up new forms (on the correct paper with the correct terminology).. However none of this is going to be quick so I stillc an't access any of dad's money.

What exactly is the problem with the PoA? They are very simple, it might be best to download the document from the Public Guardianship website http://www.guardianship.gov.uk/downloads/Make_An_EPA.Web.pdf and complete it yourself, that's what I did. Nor do you need a solicitor to register it with Public Guardianship, that can be done yourself much cheaper and probably quicker (and, by the sound of it, better!)

soolin

Firstly the problem with the POA is that they sent a draft out with all the explanatory bits still on it, without marking it as a draft. As a layman I didn't realise it should be on fancy paper with no notes and had it signed and witnessed. The clerk at the office is blaming me for not realising it was only a draft..and even suggested that I have missed the 6 inch high letter across it that say draft..they don't believe me when I say it does not mention anywhere on the letter or the form that it is a draft. However senior partner say that since it doesn't say draft and has been legally signed and witnessed it should be still capable of being used as the intent is obvious.

However, that is the least of my worries. With 2 hours before Dad was scheduled to leave hospital in an ambulance it has all gone wrong again. On discharge it was discovered that Dad's last blood tests are poor and they need an urgent medical input to stabilise his heart condition. The home have said they are still willing to take him and make appropriate arrangements to seek medical advice but hospital are stressing that results are 'very poor' and this is likely to have a knock on effect.

This has meant that the bed in the home has now been released and my local social services have already requested an assessment for another person to take it instead of Dad.

So, hospital is waiting to speak to a consultant, which now might be tomorrow. They have also asked me to go in tomorrow so they can talk to me again. Home is cross, although they did say I could try them again when it is all sorted in case they have another place. Social worker giving up on process as she has no beds locally to her anymore. I've asked the hospital how long it will be until dad can move, but they say they can't give me any idea, it might be days it might be over a week. I've therefore asked them to do it properly this time and go through a proper nursing assessment and care plan, *and* give me a full month to look for a new home. I was told I would have to agree that with a consultant.

lyns_2

I have worked in private care homes and i now do home care
It is a shame to see care standards have closed down so many good small homes because they could not meet there requirments ie single rooms with there own toilets.The care in some of these smaller homes is more personal and residents are treated as part of the family.Saying that i did go to work in one home lovely to look at clean own chef ect but i left after 2 weeks as i felt unable to give the residents the level of care the deserved ie 10 min to get one up even if they needed the loo,lifting /draging a 20 stone lady in the bath even though the had the equipment to do it.
When looking for a home i would say
Go at a busy time like in the morning when staff are getting people up or at lunch time,see how the staff comunicate with you and your mother if you take her some places will invite her to lunch.do not go by smell to much it is a home and accidents can happen at any time even when visitors arrive i worked it a home where a lady had a ulcerated leg and the smell was horrible but the home was good.Follow your heart do you think she would be happy there would you be happy to visit her there?
I once had a letter of a family after ther mother who had dementure had passed away it thanked me for the care i had given and said that i got on her wave length this may not seem like a lot but to me it made what i do worth while.

Biggles

soolin wrote: »

I've therefore asked them to do it properly this time and go through a proper nursing assessment and care plan, *and* give me a full month to look for a new home. I was told I would have to agree that with a consultant.

I think that's the attitude. Don't worry, it you haven't agreed a home, they can't release him.

If you have the time, download the PoA form from the link I gave earlier and get it signed and witnessed - time is of the essence, as you need your dad to sign it, prefereably while there's a doctor nearby to agree he still 'has mental capacity'. If he deteriorates, it may be too late and you will need to go through the Court of Protection, very time-consuming and very expensive, as you said earlier. The form is very simple and just as valid as any your solicitor may do, feel free to PM me if you need help with it.

Torry_Quine

Hope that everything goes well with a care home place for your Dad. Having been there with a relative 3 years ago I know only too well how draining the process can be both phsically and mentally.

Thankfully my relative has now been settled in her home for over 2 years and is well looked after. Initially she was self funding but money doesn't go far with costs of over £700 per week! It took the council a long time but they eventullly assessed her and now pay other than her pension and pension credit and some money from her diminishing savings. Once her money drops to £12.500 she will keep the remainder of her savings. ( May be differednt amounts elsewhere). Getting the correct amount for her pension credit was alos difficult and I contacted her MP who was very helpful.

It is common practice for self funding residents to pay more that the amount paid by the council, the good thing is that this home never puts people out or asks for a top up for the difference.

My thoughts are with you.

God Bless

margaretclare

soolin wrote: »

However, that is the least of my worries. With 2 hours before Dad was scheduled to leave hospital in an ambulance it has all gone wrong again. On discharge it was discovered that Dad's last blood tests are poor and they need an urgent medical input to stabilise his heart condition. The home have said they are still willing to take him and make appropriate arrangements to seek medical advice but hospital are stressing that results are 'very poor' and this is likely to have a knock on effect.

This has meant that the bed in the home has now been released and my local social services have already requested an assessment for another person to take it instead of Dad.

So, hospital is waiting to speak to a consultant, which now might be tomorrow. They have also asked me to go in tomorrow so they can talk to me again. Home is cross, although they did say I could try them again when it is all sorted in case they have another place. Social worker giving up on process as she has no beds locally to her anymore. I've asked the hospital how long it will be until dad can move, but they say they can't give me any idea, it might be days it might be over a week. I've therefore asked them to do it properly this time and go through a proper nursing assessment and care plan, *and* give me a full month to look for a new home. I was told I would have to agree that with a consultant.

Your poor Dad is too ill to be moved. His blood results are 'very poor'. He's in hospital, which is the best place for him to receive the treatment he needs.

So the 'home is cross'. So what. Your Dad's health is the first consideration, rather than who is cross or who isn't.

The home say they can make arrangements to 'seek medical advice', but this is only the same as Dad could do if he was in his own home. Once discharged from hospital, the whole scenario of re-referral, waiting and treatment would start again. Care homes do not, AFAIK, have any kind of a 'fast track' to hospital treatment.

Leave him where he is until his blood results improve. This may not happen quickly.

HTH

Margaret

EdInvestor

Re the money side, have a look at this:

https://www.hsbcpensions.co.uk/nhfa/pdfs/is6.pdf

The "immediate needs annuity" which guarantees and caps the cost can be very useful, and good value for money depending on the person.

Errata

Hello Soolin, so sorry to hear your dad isn't as well today as everyone had hoped.
Re. the Home being cross - extremely unprofessional of them, so you may want to revisit your decision about a possible place there for your dad when he's well enough to be discharged
Re. the Home seeking medical advice - if your Dad's assessment before discharge is done properly that will define if the home is suitable for your dad's needs, or not.
My best wishes for you for tomorrow's meeting. I think it looks like you need to start from the beginning again, and that starts with a full multi disciplinary assessment of your dad's needs. Without that being done, nobody can know if he needs to be discharged to a residential home, nursing home, or dual registered home.
Re. the POA - do you think it would be a good idea for you to phone the Public Guardianship Office for their guidance about the legitimacy of the signed POA?
Re: funding of nursing component of the care fees. My feeling is that your dad will come under the PCT that covers whichever home he moves into. Some PCT's are more eager to fund than others, having said that, they all wriggle like a bunch of eels and try to get out of it, but it's worth fighting for.
Re: refurbing dad's home and renting it out. The LA don't care where the money comes from for the fees, whether by sale of property/savings/revenue from investments etc., but clearly this is something that you'll need to discuss at length with SS, there are so many variables - not least how long a refurb would take and it's cost and things like voids, unpaid rent, whether the LA would charge interest on the care it funds until it can be reimbursed.
Hope this helps a bit, best wishes to both you and your dad.