Questions to ask re Care Homes ?

soolin

Thank you Errata.At the moment I am really struggling with all this, I have other matters complicating the move and need to get that out of the way. However, I will look into making a complaint, or at least ask why this happens as soon as the rest is sorted.

Also should someone be making some sort of assessment on dad's ability to pay? This is the added complication, he has a house but it is dilapidated to such an extent that services have had to be cut off and the roof is shored up..selling at the moment would resut in a huge financial loss as it is a development only probably through auction property. I was hoping someone would contact me from SS so I could ask for time to get the house made good so the house will get a better price and keep dad in funds for longer. at the moment all know is that they will pay the fees for dad fro 'a few weeks' and I can pay them back a lump sum when house sold. I've got no real input though from SS and I asked at the hospital where dad has been staying and they struggle to get any input either.

Errata

Soolin, Social Services should make the financial assessment and as part of that ensure that your dad is claiming higher rate attendance allowance. This is most usually done by the person's social worker. The Local Authority will meet any shortfall in weekly fees not met by your dad's pension(s) and AA and will put a charge on the property so they are paid first when the property is sold. In my area the LA is happy to wait until property is sold, providing there is evidence that it's been put on the market.
There are quite a few leaflets on the Age Concern website about funding care home fees/charge on property/sale of property, but I'd like to suggest you speak to your local Age Concern about all this as your dad's situation is a very common one. HTH

soolin

Errata, I've had no social service input at all, nor does dad claim *any* attendance allowance. Frankly I'm having a very bad day today, it's all getting a bit too much but i suppose I must go back and try and tackle social services again tomorrow. The problem is they say I must talk to my named social worker, but she will not take my calls and when she does she just tells me not to worry..we haven't actually discussed anything much at all except for the fact that she wants me to get money out of dad ASAP so that social services don't have to fund him for too long.

Errata

Sorry everything feels like a mountain to climb at the moment, it will get better but I do know it's hard to bear.
If you're not getting the support you need from the social worker and she's not returning your calls you might want to try speaking to her manager. I'm assuming it's the Social Work team for Older People? She shouldn't be telling you not to worry, she should be acknowledging the fact that you are worried and doing whatever is necessary to sort your worries out.
She only needs to convey the information about the fees funding, not harass you about repaying the LA asap. Frankly I'm amazed, usually social workers see themselves on the side of their clients rather than acting as debt reminders for the finance department. Takes all sorts.
The procedure should be -
Client in hospital assessed by multi disciplianry team as being in need of residential care on discharge.
Relatives go barmy trying to find a suitable home
Client's social worker does financial assessment and assists with the AA form completion (people in care homes get high rate as they need help both day ant night)
Client is discharged to care home

TBH I could write 3/4 pages, but I strongly feel you'll get good information and also good emotional support from Age Concern or Help the Aged. I'm extremely concerned about the pressure the social worker appears to be putting you under and the fact that you've been told it's one fee for LA funded residents but £150 more for self funders. This can't be right for all kinds of reasons, one of which would be that the care is identical so the self funders would be contributing to the care fees of the LA funded if you see what I mean.
It seems to me that the key to all this is the information and support you're entitled to from social services. You may have to be extremely assertive with them, which might not be too easy at this difficult time, but if you're clear about exactly what you need from them and give them a deadline for it they should have no difficulty in giving you what you need. Just remember you're sticking up for your dad, and social workers are civil servants not best friends.
I don't know how you LA works, but my LA funded my mum's fees for nearly 3 years before the house could be sold and didn't charge interest. They also funded my stepdad's fees for 2 years and again charged no interest. I sold their house at auction as it wasn't in a very good state and I knew all but £40k of it would go to the LA in any case and I certainly wasn't in the business of maximising the council's income by doing it up and getting a bit more for it.
This is always an extremely stressful and difficult time for relatives and once things are settled it does becomes easier, but do take care of yourself and see if you can find someone to support you. That's not always easy for everyone and I don't want to stretch a point, but The Samaritans are always there to listen to everyone.
Best wishes and HTH

soolin

Errata, you have been more help that all the main agencies put together, thank you!

I have just spoken to benefits people and they say dad is almost certainly entitled to attendance allowance at £64.50 a week and that they will date my claim from today and send forms out to me straight away. This is after SS told me that Dad wasn't entitled to anything!

Slight problem now though, the decision to allow dad to leave hospital and move into care home on Monday has not been confirmed..so ss and hospital and care home all arguing at the moment...may have to start opening the 'dinner' wine at lunchtime at this rate especially as hospital say unless a decision is made 'now' they will cancel transport and we will have to start all over again.

Errata

You're very welcome, glad that I could be of some help.
The transition from hospital to residential care should be smooth, but very often isn't as all the agencies involved can fight each other like cats in a sack sometimes. Let them get on with it, don't be pushed into anything just because it makes life easier for them. The most important thing is that wherever your dad is, is that he's comfy, well cared for and as content as he can be. If that means hospital for a few more days - so be it. The bottom line is that he can't be discharged until a place in an appropriate care home is found for him and agreed by all. Please don't let anyone railroad you into making a decision that doesn't feel right for your dad.
The hospital's priority is to free up the bed, and they'll push for that. Social Services priority is to ensure their client moves to suitable accommodation, a care homes priority is to fill vacancies. Most care homes will be happy to hang on for another week if it's a dead cert they will fill their vacancy.
You were writing about selling your dad's property and I wondered if you, or someone else, had his Power of Attorney? If he's been assessed as not having mental capacity and nobody has his POA, that will have to be sorted out by the Public Guardianship office before any of his assets can be disposed of. There's comprehensive information on this in the Public Guardianship office website, sorry I don't have the link to hand, google will find it.
Hope this has helped and very best wishes to you and your dad.

soolin

I have power of attorney forms here signed by dad and witnessed at the hospital, I'm hoping to see the solicitor on Wednesday to file them (or whatever the correct term is). That was another problem..I had the forms before dad has his episode but hospital refused me permission to have them signed and said I had to go for the other one, the guardianship thing. I got all those forms and took them to the hospital but when they realised that was likely to take months they backed down and agreed that dad was able to sign the basic power of attorney things instead, and that was only done last week. i think social services saw dad's money dissapearing into court fees rather than care home fees..and decided the POA was the best thing.

No one apart from me has seen the home or made any arrangements to check it out, they are all so desperate just to free up a bed that i reckon I could have moved him into anywhere and they wouldn't have cared, in fact ss have made no attempt to assess Dad in any way or even his eligibility to pay. On your advice I have now insisted the hospital give me a nursing assessment form, as the earlier one I saw, but have no copy of was wrong and made dad sound just a bit confused, which is absolutely not the case. It also stated incorrectly that dad was fully continent (is that the right word?) in fact he is not..but we argued about that for weeks.

If the agreement to move dad is not made in time for Monday, do I just again refuse to pay for the wasted week? I am making careful notes about the dates, because I have now got so suspicious of them all that I wouldn't be surprised if ss send me a bill for care home fees paid on dad's behalf from last week when he was supposed to have moved, and just assume I won't notice the wrong date.

Errata

Good to hear the POA is sorted out, that will make things easier - although it might not feel like it.
Given that everyone's faffing about, it's a good idea to keep a record. What I always suggest is that this is in the form of a day to day diary so the content of all conversations can be recorded together with who said it. Any decisions that are arrived at verbally can be recorded together with who made them, and it's often useful to write a letter to whoever, copied to whoever, saying something like 'On blah date it was decided by blah, blah and blah that blah etc..........Please write to me withing 7 days if my understanding of this matter is incorrect.' This is useful when recollections of telephone conversations are different. The important thing is to get everything confirmed in a written letter, not an email.
Don't worry too much about fees for next week. SS will be paying them and your dad's contract with the home, I'm pretty certain, doesn't start until he actually moves in. It will be months and months before all the money stuff comes to be settled, and by then you'll be feeling far more emotionally stronger and assertive. And probably bloody-minded!
Just a thought - your dad can't be discharged from hospital without a full assessment of need, that's done by a multi disciplinary team in a meeting which both dad and you can take part in and contribute to, if you want to.
It's a formal written assessment and both dad and you should be given a copy for signature before he sets foot out of the ward. HTH, best wishes.

Errata

Parliamentary Committee on care of older people info here

http://www.careandhealth.com/Pages/Story.aspx?EntityID=e73764f1-38e2-4e1d-aad4-54c2f0d570e2

The page has a link to the full report.

soolin

If I have a tether then I think I've just reached the end of it....solictor has made an error on the POA and are saying it is not going to be filed and I'll need to get a new one signed. I've explained that dad was mentally competent when the one I have was signed but i might have problems now as he deteriorates on an almost weekly basis..

I've spent the best part of an hour trying to talk with someone, but apparently it is Friday and so there is no-one else I can talk to. After I asked for their complaints procedure they told me to phone their main office, and I've done that and spoken to a senior partner. SP much more reassuring and talked about the intent of the document being obvious which will mean it should be OK, and I'm going to see himat his office a few towns away, rather than the clerk at my local office next week.

I'm going out now as if i sit here waiting for ss/the home or the hospital to call me back I'm going to shout at someone.