How will the economy be affected by SNP MPs; will it be for richer or for poorer and

Tromking

Generali wrote: »

Could you link to one. I genuinely have never seen a poll with a majority wanting an English Parliament nor do people I know want one. Perhaps it's a further sign of the divisiveness that the SNP have introduced to British politics.

Nationalism brings hate and division. Unfortunately the British, who have resisted admirably for decades, seem to be succumbing. I hope they'll draw back from the abyss.

They say there is currently a crisis in western democracies, people seemingly are not willing to put up with the same old, same old anymore. The birth of localism in these islands is a symptom of that in my opinion. The antipathy toward Westminster displayed by millions of Scots, is widely prevalent in England too. Such is the political elite`s fear of the great unwashed at the moment they`re afraid to award themselves a pay rise of any sort. Get our constitutional settlement right and you solve petty nationalism not the other way round.

Thrugelmir

Tromking wrote: »

They say there is currently a crisis in western democracies, people seemingly are not willing to put up with the same old, same old anymore.

What's changed? Another generation another revolution.

CLAPTON

Tromking wrote: »

They say there is currently a crisis in western democracies, people seemingly are not willing to put up with the same old, same old anymore. The birth of localism in these islands is a symptom of that in my opinion. The antipathy toward Westminster displayed by millions of Scots, is widely prevalent in England too. Such is the political elite`s fear of the great unwashed at the moment they`re afraid to award themselves a pay rise of any sort. Get our constitutional settlement right and you solve petty nationalism not the other way round.

in Europe, in the thirties, people were not willing to put up with the same old any more
didn't have a great outcome really

in the middle east, people weren't willing to put up with the same old either
doesn't seem to be having a great outcome either

.string.

Tromking wrote: »

They say there is currently ....

I think one could stop there.

Do you really think there has ever been a time since the first walking ape gathered a big enough family for it to be called a tribe, that there was no dissent from people who held a different viewpoint from the ruling order.

How many revolutions, civil strife, government factions, street riots, New waves, protest groups, and just plain grumbling have there been through the ages.

... And who of us has never talked disparaging about politicians, the way they operate agendas all their sins? And how much of that grumbling is based on fact and objectivity? And how many of us are any better.

All that is part of the human condition. It has its merits, you don't make progress unless you challenge the status quo, but let's not fill ourselves, our new bright ideas are not automatically better, and even if they are they soon become the target of fresh grumbling.

"Localism" has its enthusiasts it is true, but don't mistake it for some new sparkling truth. Such thinking is itself same old same old. The localist of today will become the despot of tomorrow, his local patch grown through ambition to be tomorrows bigger better Worstminster.

Tromking

These are the best of times in the West, there`s never been a better time to be alive. Despite that, the human condition dictates that we search endlessly for better. I personally see nothing potentially "despotic" in taking decision making down to its lowest level, and I am now convinced that adopting a federal system is crucial to the continuance of the UK.
Anyone who saw the recent BBC2 programme on the Palace of Westminster recently must have been struck on what a arcane system of government we still have. These are exciting times, the status quo is no longer acceptable.

CLAPTON

Tromking wrote: »

These are the best of times in the West, there`s never been a better time to be alive. Despite that, the human condition dictates that we search endlessly for better. I personally see nothing potentially "despotic" in taking decision making down to its lowest level, and I am now convinced that adopting a federal system is crucial to the continuance of the UK.
Anyone who saw the recent BBC2 programme on the Palace of Westminster recently must have been struck on what a arcane system of government we still have. These are exciting times, the status quo is no longer acceptable.

searching endlessly for better?
is that working in the middle east?

whatever evidence do you have, for your believe that a federal system is crucial to the continuance of the UK?
just an arbitrary opinion ?

Tromking

CLAPTON wrote: »

searching endlessly for better?
is that working in the middle east?

whatever evidence do you have, for your believe that a federal system is crucial to the continuance of the UK?
just an arbitrary opinion ?

No western democracies in the middle east Clappers.
The West has been and still is the best chance for the advancement of the human condition.
It`s a thoroughly personal view re. federalism, so yes an arbitrary opinion as you put it.

Thrugelmir

Tromking wrote: »

The West has been and still is the best chance for the advancement of the human condition.

Others around the world may disagree with that view. Western domination has passed.

CLAPTON

Tromking wrote: »

No western democracies in the middle east Clappers.
The West has been and still is the best chance for the advancement of the human condition.
It`s a thoroughly personal view re. federalism, so yes an arbitrary opinion as you put it.

I didn't realise your 'human condition searching endlessly ....' only included white people in Europe.
Easy mistake to make.

.string.

Tromking wrote: »

These are the best of times in the West, there`s never been a better time to be alive. Despite that, the human condition dictates that we search endlessly for better. I personally see nothing potentially "despotic" in taking decision making down to its lowest level, and I am now convinced that adopting a fe loyalistsderal system is crucial to the continuance of the UK.
Anyone who saw the recent BBC2 programme on the Palace of Westminster recently must have been struck on what a arcane system of government we still have. These are exciting times, the status quo is no longer acceptable.

Despotism is a natural human behaviour; I could go on about the political form being that of insisting one's own party remains in power, but can't be bothered.

Taking decision down to its lowest levels, which is what I, and I think you also, mean by localism is not really the same as Federalism where the "ruling class" are not at all local, but sitting in the federal capital. Do Shetland people think Edinburgh. Is local? I could agree that federalism applied to a UK divided into Scotland, England Wales & NI could be a way forward, although I don't particularly like it, but bringing that federal concept down to local region level in England I do not like at all.

I I suspect that people who might think of themselves as "localists" (if that's a real word) have actually not tried to run for their local parish, which is truly local, and would be surprised to be told that they had already local government of a sort. It's enough I think.

Regarding Westminster, unfortunately I did not see the BBC2 programme so can't comment on it. Was it about funny hats & clapping?

Anyway, for a good idea of what Westminster is really about, rather than what are people's perceptions of it, and good transparency on what is going on there, I recommend the following to everybody.

https://www.parliament.uk/

It is excellent. You can read about it's systems, what is being debated and what was said.

Edit: Just to elaborate the last point, have a look at this which is for the on-going Scotland Bill.

Scotland Bill 2015-16