Northen Rock [Merged Threads]

luv_my_brass

jamie304 wrote: »

A lot of people are withdrawing their large ISA savings from NR in cash :eek: so are losing out big time on future interest.

Oo-er - I have a fair amount of isa's bought through NR, have been thinking of moving them out as they don't pay as good a rate of interest as others. I don't know why, but it didn't occur to me that isa's would be affected.

Aegis

roddydogs wrote: »

Update 14.21 Website still busy who are they trying to kid? theyve stopped people drawing out money, simple as that, how can anyone ever prove otherwise?

Innocent until proven guilty. Also parsimony has to play a part here, which is the principle of looking for the solution with the fewest unproved assertions. In this case, we know that IT systems are designed for a specific volume of traffic to minimise cost, and that the volume of traffic right now is much higher than on any day you'd usually plan for. A parsimonious explanation is therefore that the increased volume of traffic is simply too much to handle.

In order for your claim to be true, you have to assume that they built in the ability to randomly block people's connections (randomly because we know that some people have got on to the site after a while) and are using it in spite of what the FSA or other industry bodies might do about that if they found out about it. All in all, this claim seems a little ridiculous without some sort of evidence to back it up!

nilrem_2

I wonder if this bloke will put his £1,000,000+ under his mattress!:eek:

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=231771&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231754&home=yes&more_nodeId1=231776&contentPK=18398004

This whole thing is just plain crazy IMHO, people must be losing £1000's in interest because of this silly panicking!

[Deleted User]

Better then losing £970,000

The run on the bank has continued today, is there enough paper money in existence I wonder.

Mine's_a_guinness

It annoys me that the media only seem to be interviewing the panic stricken folk who are queuing for hours to withdraw all their savings. This media attention will only panic more people. Why don't they also report on the thousands, like myself and others, who have savings with NR but are staying put. Maybe if there was a bit more of a balance in reporting there would be less of the headless chicken syndrome.

Optimist

Mine's_a_guinness wrote: »

It annoys me that the media only seem to be interviewing the panic stricken folk who are queuing for hours to withdraw all their savings. This media attention will only panic more people. Why don't they also report on the thousands, like myself and others, who have savings with NR but are staying put. Maybe if there was a bit more of a balance in reporting there would be less of the headless chicken syndrome.

Indeed I'm also staying put. I'm perfectly happy with the guarantees in place

old_codger1

I've read through the thread and there's something that's worrying me. What exactly is the difference between Northern Rock and any other bank or building society. I say that for the following reasons.

1. It's been the situation for many years, (probably since the depression in the 1930's), that banks couldn't pay out all their depositors if they all ask for their money at the same time. There are many reasons for this but the best one can be seen if you just ask yourself one simple question.. Can YOU pay back all the money you now owe to lending institutions, i.e. banks, building societies, etc. Note, I mean EVERYTHING... EVERY SINGLE PENNY. I'd suggest almost everyone will answer 'NO' to that question.

2. As I understand it the latest accounts of Northern Rock show an excess of assets over liabilities. In other words people owe them more money than they owe to their creditors, (i.e. savers, other banks, etc).

3. Building societies lend money to people to buy property which even this year, will probably go up... not as much as it has done but, nevertheless, up! In other words Northern Rocks assets are gaining in value. Banks, on the other hand, lend to businesses which sometimes DON'T go up. In fact sometimes they go broke and lose everything. Can YOU think of a residential property that has lost ALL it's value because, frankly, I can't. In the case of some of the major high street banks some of them have even lent to the US sub-prime market which HAS lost substantial amounts, in some cases as much as 20%.

So, all the above being the case, if I take my money out of Northern Rock, where can I put it? The Halifax? Abbey National? How about the major high street banks lie, say, NatWest or Barclays? Again, if THEY had to pay all their depositors money back they couldn't and, frankly I don't trust them any more than I trust the building societies.

The point is we're not talking about an investment institution here. This is not an organisation that exists to invest it's savers money into widget manufacturing in Mexico... this is a company that exists to lend money to people buying houses in the UK. If THAT'S not seen to be safe, where is???

If Northern Rock is allowed to go down what it tells me is that there is no bank, building society or financial institution that is safe.

So for the people coming on here saying 'OH, I've been clever... I've moved my money from Northern Rock to, (insert name of substantial financial institution here)', I say, 'So what? You think that's going to save you?.

What will happen is financial institutions will be picked off by market hysteria, one by one, until the one you've put your money in will find itself in the firing line. That's exactly what happened during the depression and THAT'S why the federal reserve, Bank of England, etc. established themselves as lenders of last resort. The only thing to do if a collapse of that sort happens is to place your money under the mattress. Nobody will be able to borrow money because the banks won't have any.

In any event, if you think about it, if they fund Northern Rock the money is still in the banking system. It hasn't gone anywhere. From the Bank of England's point of view the situation remains unchanged.

That's why the Bank of England will pay out every penny to Northern Rock savers, (if necessary printing the money). Not because they want to... because they have NO CHOICE!!!

If hysteria causes the collapse of a major British bank or building society that is still solvent, (as opposed to an investment vehicle like Equitable Life), the collapse will engulf everything and everyone.

Channelman

I can confirm that IT IS POSSIBLE to get onto internet based accounts.
I've just got in at 15.45 today (15th). I just kept trying and after about
20 or so attempts it did let me access my account and transfer money.
I tried overnight at 1.30 am and 5.30 am and since it said BUSY I assumed
that it had been blocked but doesn't look like it.
Persevere, it is possible.
Channelman

old_codger1

Aegis wrote: »

Innocent until proven guilty. Also parsimony has to play a part here, which is the principle of looking for the solution with the fewest unproved assertions. In this case, we know that IT systems are designed for a specific volume of traffic to minimise cost, and that the volume of traffic right now is much higher than on any day you'd usually plan for. A parsimonious explanation is therefore that the increased volume of traffic is simply too much to handle.

Indeed. Massive volume attacks are actually the way that high tech criminals can attack a website. They're called denial of service attacks, (DOS for short).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_service_attack

One common method of attack involves saturating the target (victim) machine with external communications requests, such that it cannot respond to legitimate traffic, or responds so slowly as to be rendered effectively unavailable.

roddydogs

Flynn wrote: »

By asking the IT team who manage the servers for a start. Not something they could keep secret indefinitely is it? The servers are busy which is hardly surprising. The branches stayed open late to deal with extra customers but they can't just instantly bring extra servers on-line.

Customers are naturally worried despite the government having stepped in. Why do some idiots want to start more baseless hysterical rumours to wind them up even more?

So how much do you have in NR?