Any Good citizen award assessors out there?

elsien

When Gitdog did his bronze, after a bit of uncertainty, he was allowed to do it with his harness.
However the next lot through (with the same assessor) were told that dogs had to do the award with the lead attached to the collar, and all harnesses had to be taken off.
Gitdog is now coming up for his silver and the trainer has been told the same rules apply, although she has queried this with the kennel club.
My concern is that for the assessment he needs to walk to heel near a fairly busy road. And if he goes off on one (which still occasionally happens) as his neck is wider than his head, the collar would be off and he'd be under the nearest car. I'm happy to compromise and lead walk using a collar but with the lead also linked to the harness just in case. However if they're still insisting no harness at all, he won't be able to do the award as I'm not prepared to risk him getting loose. Which would be a shame as seeing the progress from total mayhem through the award is a good motivator.
So any kennel club people who can clarify?

solen

I can't help with the kennel club question, but have you tried a martingale collar?

We have greyhounds, and their heads are also smaller than their necks. The collars have a loop in them that allows them to fit round the neck, but if they pul, they tighten nearer the head so they can't slip off, but the way they are made means they can't tighten enough to choke the dog.

I've not explained that very well, have a look here http://www.collargirl.com/how_martingale_work.htm
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E84VS2M1SLk

You can get some lovely designs and the price ranges between 10 to 25 depending on fabrics

Blondygirl

Hi Elsien,

Maybe too late now for you but i'm a KC Examiner @ Bronze level having attended the KC Examiner course.

I'm afraid that dogs do have to be presented for test with a flat collar & lead unless there is a medical reason why your dog can't wear one. This is stated in the handbook the examiners are given. It's deemed that if you are using a harness its easier to contact the dog than on a flat collar so you have an advantage over others. The examiner may allow you to leave his harness on with a lead attached that is out of the way & walk him on the flat collar & lead so that you can show that it is that controlling the dog & not the harness if that may sence but it's there if anything happens for you to grab.

Hope gitdog passes with flying colours.
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elsien

Thanks for the info, not looking hopeful then. If the assessor does insist on no harness for a proper pass, I wonder if they'd let us have a go at the assessment anyway, but without a formal pass or certificate. That way at least I'd feel as if I'd achieved something.
(Regardless of KC rules, I personally don't feel a harness gives me any advantage with Gitdog - you'd have to practically yank him off his feet for him to notice anything was happening!)

elsien

solen wrote: »

I can't help with the kennel club question, but have you tried a martingale collar?

We have greyhounds, and their heads are also smaller than their necks. The collars have a loop in them that allows them to fit round the neck, but if they pul, they tighten nearer the head so they can't slip off, but the way they are made means they can't tighten enough to choke the dog.

I've not explained that very well, have a look here http://www.collargirl.com/how_martingale_work.htm
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E84VS2M1SLk

You can get some lovely designs and the price ranges between 10 to 25 depending on fabrics

Day to day I use a half check, which looks similar. Not allowed to use them in class though, not allowed by whichever training association the trainer is registered with.

mtbbuxton

I'm glad mine went through and passed Gold before the rules were changed then. I have a Lurcher and a Whippet and I'm with you elsien, I think this is unfair to those wishing to keep their dogs safe when out and about. Most of my friends have Sighthounds and all of us use either a Martingale collar or harness (or both together) to prevent them slipping free. There's no way you could grab a trailing lead to control them if the need arose.

I wonder why they feel the need to fix something that wasn't broken

M x

sheramber

The purpose of the test to assess that he dog is under control at all times.

If a dog needs a harness in case it 'goes off one' the it could be argued that it is not under control.

Knowing the KC , when the rules were made, it probably didn't occur to them that anyone would want to use a harness.

Similarly, in obedience, there was originally no mention of not being allowed to use a harness or headcollar as it was not envosged that one would be used when the rules were made up.

elsien

Possibly, although if they were that well trained, they wouldn't need to do the award in the first place.

mtbbuxton

sheramber wrote: »

The purpose of the test to assess that he dog is under control at all times.

If a dog needs a harness in case it 'goes off one' the it could be argued that it is not under control.

Knowing the KC , when the rules were made, it probably didn't occur to them that anyone would want to use a harness.

Similarly, in obedience, there was originally no mention of not being allowed to use a harness or headcollar as it was not envosged that one would be used when the rules were made up.

But what about those dogs who anatomy prevents them fitting safely into a standard flat collar? It's perfectly possible that a normally well behaved dog could be spooked by a passing lorry for example and then back out of a collar. It can happen even with a well trained dog of the wrong shape. My Lurcher simply stopped to admire the scenery one day and I didn't - cue one very laid back dog stood at the side of me with no collar on. Also, I think it's unrealistic to expect to be able to train inate prey drive out of a dog in a few weekly classes, so it also puts other pets at potential risk.

M x

sheramber

mtbbuxton wrote: »

But what about those dogs who anatomy prevents them fitting safely into a standard flat collar? It's perfectly possible that a normally well behaved dog could be spooked by a passing lorry for example and then back out of a collar. It can happen even with a well trained dog of the wrong shape. My Lurcher simply stopped to admire the scenery one day and I didn't - cue one very laid back dog stood at the side of me with no collar on. Also, I think it's unrealistic to expect to be able to train inate prey drive out of a dog in a few weekly classes, so it also puts other pets at potential risk.

M x

Is that not what greyhound /lurcher collars with a wide middle part tapering to the buckle are for?


The KC decide what they want a dog to do to get one of their certificates . That is all it is - a certificate issued by the KC.

They decide the rules and it is voluntary whether a dog owner wants their dog to qualify for that certificate.

If you want a certificate , you train your dog to reach the required standard.

There is no requirement to reach that standard in a few weeks. It takes as long as it takes.

A dog should not be put forward for the test unless it can achieve the required standard.

mtbbuxton

sheramber wrote: »

Is that not what greyhound /lurcher collars with a wide middle part tapering to the buckle are for?


The KC decide what they want a dog to do to get one of their certificates . That is all it is - a certificate issued by the KC.

They decide the rules and it is voluntary whether a dog owner wants their dog to qualify for that certificate.

If you want a certificate , you train your dog to reach the required standard.

There is no requirement to reach that standard in a few weeks. It takes as long as it takes.

A dog should not be put forward for the test unless it can achieve the required standard.

The Greyhound collars still don't stay on many dogs, even when fitted properly. I volunteer with a Greyhound and Lurcher Rescue and have known of many dogs they just didn't suit. We recommend Martingale collars and/or harnesses to keep everyone safe.

I'm not sure about anyone else, but when my hounds went through their KCGC classes, they were of 8 weeks duration with an assessment at the end. The expectation was that we would all pass and any that didn't had to join a waiting list to get back on the class list.

I know the KC are perfectly entitled to run the scheme as they wish, I'm not disputing that. I do however think it's a shame that so many dogs and their owners are missing out on such a good, basic training scheme when it could be left to the discretion of the Trainer as to what collar/harness combo was most appropriate for the dogs in their class.

We live in an increasingly dog-unfriendly world so surely anything that encourages responsible ownership is to be promoted? The KC has a trusted reputation and I know from personal experience that the training is highly respected.

M x