Vinci - shall I just pay it?

nigelbb

Lolaboo90 wrote: »

I'm 36 weeks pregnant and was asked quite urgently to go down to the hospital to spend some time on the monitor due to the baby not moving. Realised I had zero change for their car park and to be honest it really wasn't a priority so I just went up to the ward. Return to my car and I have a ticket which I wasn't too shocked by. They want £20 or £8 if paid in 14 days

Complain to PALS at the hospital. This is clearly a pay & display car park. It's bad enough that anyone should need to make sure they have the correct change before parking at this hospital but it's quite outrageous that a patient attending at the request of the hospital for urgent tests in this situation should be penalised. This just highlights how pay & display is completely inappropriate for managing hospital car parks.

I strongly disagree with the other suggestions that she should pay. Just contact PALS & they will sort it out.

Guys_Dad

nigelbb wrote: »

Complain to PALS at the hospital. This is clearly a pay & display car park. It's bad enough that anyone should need to make sure they have the correct change before parking at this hospital but it's quite outrageous that a patient attending at the request of the hospital for urgent tests in this situation should be penalised. This just highlights how pay & display is completely inappropriate for managing hospital car parks.

I strongly disagree with the other suggestions that she should pay. Just contact PALS & they will sort it out.

I wouldn't argue with your viewpoint and maybe a letter to PALS might be a suggestion.

But you are then placing the £8 offer at risk of being raised to £20 unless PALS respond positively within the discount period and you know very well if this was ever to get to court the eventual cost would be significantly higher and on recent experience, anything up to £100 could be awarded as non-excessive by M'lud.

It's a pragmatic course to pay the £8 given the relatively small sum.

And when Bazster - who doesn't roll over easily - concurs, then I hope Lolaboo settles and is thankful it is not some other hospitals that we have been made aware of.

bazster

Well I agree with Nigel in general about the problems of P&D, I hadn't really thought about this from that point of view.

Also, if I had received an £8/£20 ticket due to an innocent error or (as in the OP's case) unavoidable circumstances I would certainly complain long and loud about it, but I suspect the OP probably has plenty else on her mind at the moment and could do without this hassle over £8.

However, I still feel that (and especially in light of where Beavis has got to) it's good to see an example where penalties (for that is what they indubitably remain) are set at the minimum level necessary for deterrence instead of at the maximum permitted level for profiteering.

It seems to me that the worst problems of P&D are ameliorated by setting excess charges at a reasonable level instead of an extortionate level. It might just be an acceptable compromise to avoid the expense of installing barriers.

Whether hospitals should be charging for parking at all, of course, is a whole other can of worms.

nigelbb

If I had been called into the hospital for urgent investigations & found that I was expected to have change for parking but had none then found a parking ticket on my car after those test had been completed I would have been straight back into the hospital to complain long & hard. If the PALS office had been closed (they are only open 9-5 at my local hospital) then I would have been onto them at 9am sharp the next day.

Think how much money the pregnant lady saved the NHS by arriving in her own car rather than using an ambulance or hospital transport. Now they want to fine her £20/£8 because she didn't have any change? It's disgraceful.

bazster

nigelbb wrote: »

If I had been called into the hospital for urgent investigations & found that I was expected to have change for parking but had none then found a parking ticket on my car after those test had been completed I would have been straight back into the hospital to complain long & hard. If the PALS office had been closed (they are only open 9-5 at my local hospital) then I would have been onto them at 9am sharp the next day.

Think how much money the pregnant lady saved the NHS by arriving in her own car rather than using an ambulance or hospital transport. Now they want to fine her £20/£8 because she didn't have any change? It's disgraceful.

Maybe so, but you're not 36 weeks' pregnant!

But what you are really addressing here is my final point: should they be charging for parking at all? I don't suppose the person who applied the penalty had any idea of the circumstance in which the car was parked there but, of course, at a hospital similar circumstances will be a frequent and inevitable occurrence, begging the question of whether people should be made to deal with parking charge hassle when they've got far more important things on their mind?

Dr._Shoe

This is how parking enforcement really should be.

I have written to my MP with an idea for draft legislation regulating the parking industry. Some of the provisions include making parking providers responsible for security of your vehicle if they charge more than 50p an hour, pursuing true costs for "delinquent" parking etc and a cap on council parking permits.

nigelbb

Personally I don't think that hospitals should charge for parking at all. People visit a hospital because they have to not by choice or for fun so why exploit their vulnerability? Hospitals could make extra money by charging for a seat in outpatients but they don't.

By the very nature of hospitals people cannot easily estimate how long they will be & in fact their departure may be delayed by the actions of the hospital. Therefore pay & display is particularly inappropriate for managing a hospital car park.

This is an extract from the Department of Health guidance on NHS patient, visitor and staff car parking principles https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

Trusts should consider installing ‘pay on exit’ or similar schemes so that drivers pay only for the time that they have used. Additional charges should only be imposed where reasonable and should be waived when overstaying is beyond the driver’s control (eg when treatment takes longer than planned, or when staff are required to work beyond their scheduled shift).

Here is another key item from the guidance which could be applied to all parking not just at NHS hospitals:-

Contracted-out car parking...
Contracts should not be let on any basis that incentivises additional charges, eg ‘income from parking charge notices only’.

Dr._Shoe

nigelbb wrote: »

Personally I don't think that hospitals should charge for parking at all. People visit a hospital because they have to not by choice or for fun so why exploit their vulnerability? Hospitals could make extra money by charging for a seat in outpatients but they don't.

By the very nature of hospitals people cannot easily estimate how long they will be & in fact their departure may be delayed by the actions of the hospital. Therefore pay & display is particularly inappropriate for managing a hospital car park.

This is an extract from the Department of Health guidance on NHS patient, visitor and staff car parking principles https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles



Here is another key item from the guidance which could be applied to all parking not just at NHS hospitals:-

The big problem is that people will park there so that they can go and do their shopping or, worse, park there all day to go to work.

Perhaps there should be a pay on exit system with a token given by the department you visited or a sytem of validating your ticket. Even a refund would work, after all supermarkets use this system to great effect.

nigelbb

Dr._Shoe wrote: »

The big problem is that people will park there so that they can go and do their shopping or, worse, park there all day to go to work.

Perhaps there should be a pay on exit system with a token given by the department you visited or a sytem of validating your ticket. Even a refund would work, after all supermarkets use this system to great effect.

There are plenty of hospitals (especially recently built ones) like our local one that are in out of town sites. There is no reason to go there unless you are attending/visiting/working at the hospital.

For those urban hospitals where there is a potential problem with commuters etc parking then they just need to charge a sufficiently high rate to deter long stays while all those with a genuine need would be able to get concessions as you suggest. This works better with pay on exit as it's perfectly clear when parking & taking the ticket what the charges will be & what concessions are available.

pogofish

Dr._Shoe wrote: »

The big problem is that people will park there so that they can go and do their shopping or, worse, park there all day to go to work.

I'm entirely unconvinced with that line of argument - in fact the only times I've heard it put forward in any seriousness have all been where a PPC (usually Vinci) has been attempting to justify their predatory activities at hospitals.