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IAS rejected my appeal unfairly! PCM threatening taking me to court!!!
Nathan251145
Posts: 7 Forumite
My appeal to IAS:
Respected adjudicator,
This is regarding a parking fine issued by PCM to me wrongly because I did not at all park on Westgate court on 4th Jan 2015. Westgate court looks like any other council road and has NO clear private road sign.
This is what happened-
I was driving on the Westgate court towards Oxford street on 4th Jan when I saw a stranger taking photographs of my car from behind (#1-16:02:03, #2-16:02:34). Naturally I stopped (at 16:03:20) and got out of the car to ask why the lady was taking photographs while she took another photo from behind(#4-16:03:22). The lady wouldn't answer and took a photo from the front with me standing next to the car(#5-16:03:30. My right hand is visible on the right). So I ignored and continued driving. A few seconds after I was off to Oxford road when she took the last photo (#6-16:04:17)
Following are three reasons for challenge-
1. Vehicle was on the move and absolutely NOT parked on the road. Please refer to photo time stamps. First photo at 16:02:31, last photo after 106 seconds at 16:04:17 when the vehicle was on Oxford road. Time of 106 seconds would have been much less if the I wouldn't have stopped to deal with a stranger taking car photographs. I believe, time of less than 106 seconds of a moving car on a road does not constitute a parking.
2. PCM attendent quickly snapped photos of my moving car. look at photos #1,#3,#4,#5,#5 which were hastily taken since they are all out of focus as the car was moving!
3. The car was occupied. Me and my children were in the car when the photos were taken. Occupants are visible in the photographs. Therefore the car was not parked.
4. Private road sign is not clearly visible from the main road and Westgate road looks like any other council road, so no reason to believe that this is a private road. Hence I thought the lady taking photographs was a stranger. (As on a council road, one would expect such behavior from a traffic warden)
Thus, I strongly believe that PCM has wrongly fined me and are thretening me to pay the fine or I will be harrased by debt recovery agents and/or will take me to court! I kindly request you to look at PCM's evidence and the above points and put an end to this PCM's harrassment.
Looking forward to a fair decision from you,
Thanks in Advance
IAS rejected appeal with following response:
"In considering the points raised in this appeal I have carefully considered the photographs. The appellant states that they are driving along when they notice photographs being taken (photographs #1 and #2) only following these photographs they stopped the vehicle. However these two photographs show the vehicle is very close to the kerb and the vehicle has not moved between the two photographs. The vehicle is obviously stationary before the first photograph is taken.
The length of time is irrelevant, the signage is clear at the location and states that no parking is permitted, unless the driver agrees to pay the Parking Charge.
Even if the vehicle is occupied, that does not mean that it is not parked. The vehicle is stationary at the point of the first photograph and moved over close to the kerb, this amounts to parking.
Even in the absence of entrance signs, there are a number of signs along the route, including one in close proximity to the appellant's vehicle."
Evidence:
Image 1: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwTk5lbFBqc01BWDQ
Image 2: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEweW1KZHZxTi1jYzQ
Last Image: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwam5LV1VVNjJra1k
My Questions:
1. Can they prove in court that my car was stationary from photo #1 and #2?
2. Parking Control Management is threatening me to involve debt collectors and take me to court! I did not park there! What should I do?
Please help
Nathan
Respected adjudicator,
This is regarding a parking fine issued by PCM to me wrongly because I did not at all park on Westgate court on 4th Jan 2015. Westgate court looks like any other council road and has NO clear private road sign.
This is what happened-
I was driving on the Westgate court towards Oxford street on 4th Jan when I saw a stranger taking photographs of my car from behind (#1-16:02:03, #2-16:02:34). Naturally I stopped (at 16:03:20) and got out of the car to ask why the lady was taking photographs while she took another photo from behind(#4-16:03:22). The lady wouldn't answer and took a photo from the front with me standing next to the car(#5-16:03:30. My right hand is visible on the right). So I ignored and continued driving. A few seconds after I was off to Oxford road when she took the last photo (#6-16:04:17)
Following are three reasons for challenge-
1. Vehicle was on the move and absolutely NOT parked on the road. Please refer to photo time stamps. First photo at 16:02:31, last photo after 106 seconds at 16:04:17 when the vehicle was on Oxford road. Time of 106 seconds would have been much less if the I wouldn't have stopped to deal with a stranger taking car photographs. I believe, time of less than 106 seconds of a moving car on a road does not constitute a parking.
2. PCM attendent quickly snapped photos of my moving car. look at photos #1,#3,#4,#5,#5 which were hastily taken since they are all out of focus as the car was moving!
3. The car was occupied. Me and my children were in the car when the photos were taken. Occupants are visible in the photographs. Therefore the car was not parked.
4. Private road sign is not clearly visible from the main road and Westgate road looks like any other council road, so no reason to believe that this is a private road. Hence I thought the lady taking photographs was a stranger. (As on a council road, one would expect such behavior from a traffic warden)
Thus, I strongly believe that PCM has wrongly fined me and are thretening me to pay the fine or I will be harrased by debt recovery agents and/or will take me to court! I kindly request you to look at PCM's evidence and the above points and put an end to this PCM's harrassment.
Looking forward to a fair decision from you,
Thanks in Advance
IAS rejected appeal with following response:
"In considering the points raised in this appeal I have carefully considered the photographs. The appellant states that they are driving along when they notice photographs being taken (photographs #1 and #2) only following these photographs they stopped the vehicle. However these two photographs show the vehicle is very close to the kerb and the vehicle has not moved between the two photographs. The vehicle is obviously stationary before the first photograph is taken.
The length of time is irrelevant, the signage is clear at the location and states that no parking is permitted, unless the driver agrees to pay the Parking Charge.
Even if the vehicle is occupied, that does not mean that it is not parked. The vehicle is stationary at the point of the first photograph and moved over close to the kerb, this amounts to parking.
Even in the absence of entrance signs, there are a number of signs along the route, including one in close proximity to the appellant's vehicle."
Evidence:
Image 1: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwTk5lbFBqc01BWDQ
Image 2: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEweW1KZHZxTi1jYzQ
Last Image: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwam5LV1VVNjJra1k
My Questions:
1. Can they prove in court that my car was stationary from photo #1 and #2?
2. Parking Control Management is threatening me to involve debt collectors and take me to court! I did not park there! What should I do?
Please help
Nathan
0
Comments
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exif info from original photos showing times (seconds) http://metapicz.com/#landing
ps: they can involve as many debt collectors as they like , to send you scary threatening letters , but only PCM can take you to court , and armed with that fake appeal reply , would look stupid0 -
They would look pratts if this was produced in court, you could also inform them you want to call the so called independent adjudicator as a witness to explain their conclusions.0
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It certainly looks to me like your car was stationary from photo 1 to photo 2. So what? You've already stated that you stopped to find out what was going on. What they can't prove is that the timestamps haven't been doctored, that would be very easy to do.
What happened to the other photos? You seem to mention 6 photos in your IAS appeal.
In any case they are hoist on their own petard: there is an admission that there are no entrance signs, and the sign showing in photo 2 is absolutely impossible to read from a moving vehicle. Being side-on to the direction of travel it's unlikely that a driver would even notice its existence from a moving vehicle, but even if he did, beyond "PCM" there is not a single letter of text there large enough to read without stopping to read it!
Grimble is right, they would look complete pillocks going to court with this, just ignore them unless they try in which case you can wipe the floor with them.Je suis Charlie.0 -
The IAS adjudicator has failed to take into account any grace period and the fact that as bazter states, the signs cannot be read from a moving vehicle. This is par for the course.
I would reply to PCM that the debt is denied (to stop them adding debt collection charges) and that you require this to be settled by litigation. You are open to ADR.Dedicated to driving up standards in parking0 -
All Evidence Photos:
#1: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwTk5lbFBqc01BWDQ
#2: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEweW1KZHZxTi1jYzQ
#3: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwMTR1bXJfUGlMams
#4: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwRDZLcWNEYkNNcEk
#5: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwYUw2dXBmUUR6bm8
#6: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwam5LV1VVNjJra1k0 -
Nathan251145 wrote: »All Evidence Photos:
#1: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwTk5lbFBqc01BWDQ
#2: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEweW1KZHZxTi1jYzQ
#3: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwMTR1bXJfUGlMams
#4: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwRDZLcWNEYkNNcEk
#5: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwYUw2dXBmUUR6bm8
#6: drive.google.com/file/d/0B3162xwHiXEwam5LV1VVNjJra1k
No permission to access photos 3,4 and 5.Je suis Charlie.0 -
Now all evidence photos should be accessible.0
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If it goes to court, I am confident that I can prove, I didn't park, but I do not want the court action! (as it gives me bad feeling).
Regarding asking PCM to not involve debt recovery so that I don't have to pay debt collection charges - I am not sure what to do as I can't say to PCM to not involve debt recovery agent and settle in court as I do not want the court action.. I'm confused!0 -
I would be tempted to go down the put up or shut up route, and complain bitterly to the land owner
Dear landowner, your agents, PCM ticketed my car / gave me a parking charge notice, aledging that I owe £xx of which i dispute in its entirity.
I followed your agents so called Alternative Dispute resolution service, provided by the IAS however upon further investigation You, via the actions of your agents PCM are in clear breach of the The Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes Regulations 2015.
See here for details
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...0150542_en.pdf
As a result, and to prevent the possibility of any action being taken against you, and/or your agents PCM you must now instruct PCM, your agents to cancel any parking charge.
Other than genuine stamped court papaers, Should I receive any letters or any other communications from your or your agents demanding money then I will consider this to be harassment and I may then take action as appropriate.
read this https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5239891From the Plain Language Commission:
"The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"0
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