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ParkingEye Rebuttal

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Hi All,

I'm putting a POPLA - ParkingEye rebuttal together for a friend.

Any good pointers please? I'm struggling on the PoFA part, and the GPEOL element. Free car park, she stayed an hour over time.

For GPEOL I have..

I am aware of the Court of Appeal case ParkingEye v Beavis which ParkingEye claim found in its favour. I know that POPLA are aware that this judgement is being taken to the Supreme Court.

The court case in question only allowed charges to be set at those similar to local councils i.e. in xxxx that is £50 (reduced to £25 for prompt payment). Therefore ParkingEyes charges (£85, reduced to £50), are approximately double those charged by the local authority so are grossly disproportionate and unconscionable. As such the case for ParkingEye to prove a Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss remains.

Given that the appeal to the Supreme Court will be going ahead, POPLA should further adjourn this case until the Supreme Court ruling is made.


For PoFA I have...

The notice to keeper fails to have all the required elements from paragraphs 9(2)(e) and 9(2)(f) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, schedule 4. Therefore keeper liability does not apply, and as keeper I am therefore not liable.

The Notice to Keeper on only states Arrival Time and Departure Time, with a statement of’ Time in Car Park’. It does not specify the period of parking as demanded under POFA 2012 paragraph 8 section 2 (a). Parking is a specific action and that is quite different from simply being in a car park.


I think I've nailed the witness statement and lack of contract, ANPR maintenance (they did not provide any records, just a statement of what they claim to do), and the entrance sign is too close to a junction (as calculated using Pranky's notes).

Many thanks
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Comments

  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Hi All,

    I'm putting a POPLA - ParkingEye rebuttal together for a friend.

    Any good pointers please? I'm struggling on the PoFA part, and the GPEOL element. Free car park, she stayed an hour over time.

    For GPEOL I have..

    I am aware of the Court of Appeal case ParkingEye v Beavis which ParkingEye claim found in its favour. I know that POPLA are aware that this judgement is being taken to the Supreme Court.

    The court case in question only allowed charges to be set at those similar to local councils i.e. in xxxx that is £50 (reduced to £25 for prompt payment). Therefore ParkingEyes charges (£85, reduced to £50), are approximately double those charged by the local authority so are grossly disproportionate and unconscionable. As such the case for ParkingEye to prove a Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss remains.

    I don't think that the judgement at CoA said that in those stark terms. Best not to over-egg any puddings.
  • JonnyRotten
    JonnyRotten Posts: 62 Forumite
    Hey ezerscrooge

    As Guys Dad states that is not all quite what the 3 Lord Justices at the Beavis CoA said.

    LJ Moore-Bick stated in para 39 "In the end I am satisfied that in this case the amount payable by the appellant is not extravagant and that the court should therefore not decline to enforce the contract. I would therefore dismiss the appeal".

    LJ Patten agreed with M_B.

    Sir Timothy Lloyd agreed but also added some further points due to the novelty of the circumstances in which the rules about contractual penalties are invoked.

    It all needs careful reading.
    So just be careful about what you say or how you say it.

    Remember the Beavis case may have a different set of circumstances from your own and it too needs to be carefully read from the very beginning.

    Some items that might help get the terminology et al sorted.

    The racfoundation.org document - Private Parking – Public Concern by Jo Abbott and John de Waal QC February 2015. This link - http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac_foundation/content/downloadables/RACF_Private_Parking_Public_Concern_John_de_Waal_Jo_Abbott_February_2015.pdf

    This document articulates the concerns and the legal arguments incredibly succinctly.

    Look at the ParkingPrankster's guides which are also extremely useful.
    His link - http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-min=2015-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2016-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=50

    The top links on this blog lead you into his web pages for all the assistance tools.

    Lastly, this case - PE v Mrs Natasha Collins-Daniel is a must, read it really carefully too.
    http://nebula.wsimg.com/c1bb0b94cb116c2b3d2d363f7dc74d30?AccessKeyId=4CB8F2392A09CF228A46&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

    It deals with the principles of Obiter Dictum (Dicta) and Ratio Decidendi, with the first being only 'persuasive', whereas the second is 'binding', ie cases that have been set as precedent within the higher courts.

    Good luck, there is lots of good advice through this website.

    not quite so JonnyRotten this evening as I have had reasonable success with my ISP argument.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,891 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    IMHO she should email POPLA and ask for a stay for 28 days because they've posted her evidence pack which was received a week after the date on it, the day they emailed POPLA (am I right)? She should complain about that to the BPA. The more the merrier.

    Hopefully that will be agreed and give her/you time not to have to rush the rebuttal. I don't know if POPLA will agree though, just saying to try.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • ezerscrooge
    ezerscrooge Posts: 479 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Thanks everyone, I'll certainly read through the links provided. It used to be so easy. I helped 3 people get their tickets cancelled on first appeal a week before PE changed track and began refusing them.

    An email has been sent to POPLA asking for a stay in the case due to the late arrival of the evidence pack.

    Some good news came through today on this one though. I dug out the Landowner Chief Execs e-mail address and we got a strongly wording complaint in (our emails to his minions failed to get a response). Today we got a reply asking for the ticket number so they can arrange to have it cancelled.

    So if PE do as they are told, they are at least £27 out of pocket.

    I'll put this rebuttal on ice for now - we don't have a revised hearing date from POPLA

    I still have 2 others I'm helping out (one on a P&D car park, another on a free car park).

    Keep chipping away at them, and they shall crumble one day.
  • ezerscrooge
    ezerscrooge Posts: 479 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Just an update. ParkingEye have refused to cancel the charge even though the landowner has told them to do so. PE claim they cannot cancel as the case is going though POPLA (what a load of rubbish).

    So the rebuttal is back on. Along with a very strongly worded email to the Chief Exec of British Land, and the manager who crumpled when PE said 'no'. Also sent to the press, MP and Watchdog.

    The battle goes on.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,369 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Add a strong complaint to the BPA (and while you're at it, ask them how many sanction points they'll be visiting on PE).

    Any guesses on how many? :)
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    And update your POPLA appeal with the landowner's cancellation.
  • ezerscrooge
    ezerscrooge Posts: 479 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Thanks, I've included a print of the landowners e-mail stating the charge would be cancelled.

    Forgot about complaining to the BPA - I'll have them do it tomorrow. I guess the number of sanction points will be a very round figure.
  • ezerscrooge
    ezerscrooge Posts: 479 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    An update on one case where the British Land offered to cancel the charge, then backtracked because PE refused to cancel due to the case already being at POPLA.

    A very strongly worded reply went in to the Chief Exec of BL and we've now had an email back stating that if the case is lost at POPLA then BL will pay the charge.

    Wonder how long it will be before PE are given the boot from that car park now they are starting to cost BL money.

    Never give up the fight. One more to go.
  • ampersand
    ampersand Posts: 9,667 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Any substantive reply from bpa yet? - or interest from peeps mentioned in #6?
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