Issue with noisy neighbour. Do I have a case?

kissinger

I’d really appreciate some advice regarding a housing situation I’m currently dealing with.

I’m a housing association tenant and I live in a block of flats with four other tenants who all belong to the same HA. I’m on the first floor and there’s a one bedroom flat above me on the second floor. The problem I have is that lately for 4-5 days a week the guy who lives above me has been letting his two friends sleep in his flat. I.e., it's basically become a doss house for him and his mates. Now I don’t care what anyone does or doesn’t do as long as it doesn’t affect me, but this is affecting me in a big way.

They make so much noise that I can’t do anything, including sleeping or working (I work from home 80% of the time), without hearing them. It’s an old converted Victorian building and every time they walk around up there (they’ve got laminate flooring, which they’re not supposed to have; it’s supposed to be carpeted as per the tenancy agreement), talk to each other, turn on the TV, enter/exit the building or even sleep (one of them sleeps on the couch, snoring the whole time, and doesn’t wake up until around midday; it sounds like a dying Rhino), it makes a lot of noise.

Of course, you can’t expect to never hear any noise from other flats and you have to be able to put up with a certain amount, but to me this seems unreasonable. I’ve written to my landlord and while they’ve written to the tenant in question to ask him to keep the noise down it seems like they’re only doing the bare minimum, and they don’t seem at all concerned about the overcrowding, which I found a bit surprising.

Anyway, what should my course of action be here? Am I being unreasonable, or do I have a legitimate grievance?

I’ve thought about reporting them to the local council because they are potentially committing benefit fraud if they’re getting a single person discount on their Council Tax or receiving any other benefits and haven’t declared the extra two people living there. To me, if they’re there 4 nights a week, that counts as living there. And even if they have declared, then they are still at fault because then they are breaking their tenancy agreement. I put all of this into an email to my landlord this morning, including mentioning the benefit fraud issue, so we’ll see how that goes, but any advice would be appreciated.

G_M

Clearly the HA is your first port of call. Don't just pop in and hve a chat, make sure the issue is properly logged, and ask what action will be taken.

At this stage issues like benefit fraud are prmature as a) you don't know what benefits are /aren't being claimed and b) you don't know if fraud is involved.

Focus on tenancy breaches:
* the noise (keep a log of date/time/type of noise
* the possible subletting (though this does not sound like subletting, it sounds like guests)
* illegal flooring

Councils also have noise officers eg here

Pixie5740

Yes, it's annoying when your neighbours make noise over and above the norm and it prevents you from sleeping and generally living your life.

If your neighbour is being a nuisance then report the noise and antisocial behaviour to your landlord who also happens to be your neighbour's landlord, and the local council. Start keeping a log.

You don't know the benefit situation so leave that alone for now and focus on the noise.

It might be worth getting some earplugs as well until this is sorted out.

tomtontom

Have you tried a white noise machine?

Is three people in a one bedroom flat really overcrowding?

The only legitimate complaint I can see is the laminate flooring. Otherwise it sounds like poor noise insulation and the usual quirks of living in a flat.

kissinger

Nada666 wrote: »

Have you asked your Housing Association if they are happy with you paying a social rent and using domestic accommodation for a place of business for 80% of your trade?

How rude of you. I'm not in receipt of any benefits and every penny of rent I have ever paid my landlord has come from my own salary. Furthermore the rent on my property is barely any less than private rented prices in the area, and I would hazard a guess that the difference is less than the profit margin of private landlords, so while it might be classed as 'social housing' I'm certainly in receipt of no subsidy, if that's what you're implying.

Nor am I using my home as a place of business. I'm a salaried employee who happens to live far away from my office, and my employer is fine with me working from home most days, so that's what I choose to do.

It's incredible to me just how judgemental people can be without knowing all of the facts of someone's circumstances.

Errata

I put all of this into an email to my landlord this morning, including mentioning the benefit fraud issue, so we’ll see how that goes, but any advice would be appreciated.

Wait and see.

-taff

what does your covenant say about noise? Does it say it's unreasonable between 11pm and 8 am for example?
Other than report the flooring to the landlord there isn't much you can do.

kissinger

-taff wrote: »

what does your covenant say about noise? Does it say it's unreasonable between 11pm and 8 am for example?
Other than report the flooring to the landlord there isn't much you can do.

Funnily enough, the landlord told me about the flooring in the flat above! Although as you might expect I had my suspicions due to the noise. I'm not sure if having carpeted flooring is strictly forbidden by the contract, I will have to check it again when I get home, but it's certainly something new tenants are told about. E.g., I was told in no uncertain terms when I moved in that you can't have laminate flooring, so I put carpet down.

In terms of what it says about noise, it doesn't mention times, it just says that generally you shouldn't do anything which impedes the ability of other tenants to enjoy their home in 'peace and comfort'. It also explicitly states that you shouldn't allow your property to become overcrowded.

As far as I'm concerned, 3 people living there for 4-5 days a week is overcrowding, but what I'm worried about is that my landlord won't recognise that as overcrowding, just because they CBA to do anything that might rock the boat. If they accept that it's overcrowding then they would more or less be obliged to act, which is just extra hassle for them.

Norman_Castle

Nada666 wrote: »

Have you asked your Housing Association if they are happy with you paying a social rent and using domestic accommodation for a place of business for 80% of your trade?

My Housing Association supports home working.

http://www.midlandheart.org.uk/working%20from%20home

Norman_Castle

Op. Keep a diary from today. Include every disturbance and how it affects you. You will need to complain repeatedly as noise complaints are common and they need to understand how this affects you. One complaint means nothing. Have you tried talking to the noisy tenant and explaining the problem?. Its worth pointing out to the landlord about the flooring but if the tenant has limited funds they may not be able to buy carpets.
Forget the overcrowding unless you can prove others are living there. Friends staying regularly isn't overcrowding.

My current noisy neighbor wakes me during the night with loud tv and talking. With earplugs I can still hear him but with a radio tuned to radio 4 which is just speech, I can sleep through the night. The overnight radio annoys him which I suspect is why he is now quiet at night.

Good luck and keep us updated.

NICHOLAS_2

I used to live in a 3 bed detatched all on my own, i've since moved into a flat and i think i have adjusted pretty well to hearing the odd bang, noisy music and people talking loudly or slamming kitchen doors.

I have developed a neat trick, i lie on my side and put my arm over my ear, so i have one ear on the pillow and one ear being muffled by my bicep. Works wonders....

Not enough effort was put in by house builders to insulate properly, and it still isn't today. I was working in a relatively new block of flats a year or so ago and when i walked past one of them i could hear someone having a poo.

If the tenancy agreement states no laminate flooring you may want to press that because i'd probably be a bit annoyed if someone flouted that. Although i have laminate everywhere except the hall and my neighbours below probably here me shuffling around.

I don't know any of my neighbours anyway so sod em