Civil ceremony in a Chapel/Church?

coolcait

onlyroz wrote: »

But then we again get back to the difference between using a church to conduct music exams and using it to conduct a civil ceremony. Neither has anything to do with religion, but one is allowed and the other is not.

Or if you don't think the above is a valid comparison, what about conducting secular funerals in a church? Presumably that is allowed, and could even be conducted by a church minister. All we're talking about is a celebration of life or love that doesn't mention God. I'm not talking about spitting on your altar or sacrificing animals. Just a simple declaration of love and commitment between two people.

I love a good hypothetical discussion.


However, this one is a tough one to engage with - for the simple reason that you have to put aside the weight of the law to even have the discussion.


It's that same 'weight of the law' which makes it impossible to find a valid comparison with any other activity carried out on church premises (be that within the church building itself, or elsewhere).


It's also difficult to put aside the points which are about 'weight of belief'.


In the Christian tradition, marriage is about a commitment made before God and man. It is a sacrament. The church building is often described as 'God's house'.


Given those facts, I can't see how you could have a God-free civil marriage in a church.


Concerts (especially for charity), playgroups, food banks, meetings, and all sorts of other things which are not commitments before God, or sacraments - I don't see any of that conflicting with a church ethos.


Would/should/could any of the religious objections about having a civil marriage in church be over-ruled by the promise of money?


If I recall correctly, the bible was quite clear about 'What would Jesus do?' when it came to putting money before worship in a place of worship.


It didn't end well.

onlyroz

Finally a proper answer from somebody who has understood the question...

missbiggles1

onlyroz wrote: »

But then we again get back to the difference between using a church to conduct music exams and using it to conduct a civil ceremony. Neither has anything to do with religion, but one is allowed and the other is not.

But there's no such thing as secular music exams as opposed to religious ones whereas a religious marrige is far more than a civil one, in the eyes of the Church and of believers.

Jagraf

onlyroz wrote: »

Finally a proper answer from somebody who has understood the question...

I think lots of people understood the question from what I can see. I think you maybe struggled with the answers

jackyann

I really haven't read through all the thread, having only just seen it, so maybe some else has posted this experience:
I haven't known a civil marriage ceremony in a church, but I have been to a non-religious funeral, conducted by a civil celebrant, in a church.
The family went back generations in that parish, and the dead person was an atheist who supported the church's social outreach work.
The vicar & parochial church council understood the emotional significance of using the church, and indeed, most of them attended.

I'm editing this in light of posts below: of course there is a difference, as a funeral has no legal standing (it is the death certificate & disposal of the body that involves the state)
A marriage does have legal standing - which is why somewhere has to be licenced to hold them. Many couples have to have a register office wedding as well as a religious ceremony, because their place of worship is not licenced.

Errata

My very small village has a very small but very old CofE church, it's widely admired and an absolute gem both outside and inside. It could probably hold non-religious 'civil' wedding ceremonies non-stop every day of the week and all day Saturdays and make enough cash from them to fix the roof ten times over.
It doesn't because amongst the many beautiful bits and pieces it has is a moral compass.
And the PCC would go barmy at the thought of some of the words the non-religious would demand they/the vicar/any Tom,!!!!!! or Harry use during the gig.

tea_lover

onlyroz wrote: »

Where have I been disrespectful of anybody's beliefs?

Maybe not disrespectful, I'm sure not intentionally at least. But you are so totally missing the point of faith that it's making a meaningful conversation about these issues almost impossible.

God isn't something you 'chuck in' to a marriage ceremony. Not something you add a bit of to special days to please your aunt, like some sort of divine ice-cream topping.

For Christians, faith is the absolute most important thing in life. It IS life. Every thought, every breath, every moment - it's all for God. And it's only by God's grace that we have any of it.

To talk about removing God from holy sacraments such as marriage just doesn't make sense. It's like assuming it will make no difference to a person if you remove their skin, or their blood, or some other fundamental part of them.

barbarawright

onlyroz wrote: »

There are three separate issues here: whether you're allowed to have a civil ceremony in a church (and it turns out you legally can't), .

Except you can but only if the venue is registered for civil ceremonies. What you can't do is have a civil ceremony in a church *unless* it is registered for them

duchy

Errata wrote: »

My very small village has a very small but very old CofE church, it's widely admired and an absolute gem both outside and inside. It could probably hold non-religious 'civil' wedding ceremonies non-stop every day of the week and all day Saturdays and make enough cash from them to fix the roof ten times over.
It doesn't because amongst the many beautiful bits and pieces it has is a moral compass.
And the PCC would go barmy at the thought of some of the words the non-religious would demand they/the vicar/any Tom,!!!!!! or Harry use during the gig.

Not to mention none of the ceremonies would be valid legal marriages

I think the OP simply thinks going to church is a pastime rather than something deeper so struggled to understand why it wasn't a workable idea.

duchy

barbarawright wrote: »

Except you can but only if the venue is registered for civil ceremonies. What you can't do is have a civil ceremony in a church *unless* it is registered for them

You can't register an active church for secular weddings - it would need to be a deconsecrated church - it's one or t'other not both.