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Surveyor causing insurance issues.
gadgetmind
Posts: 11,130 Forumite
Daughter is buying a house and paid nearly £350 for a full RICS building survey.
There were a few issues, but the main one was -
"The outside wall has been repaired and this indicates that movement has previously affected the building. You should ask your insurance company if these past problems would affect your ability to get insurance cover for this property.
"Some of the internal doors and frames are distorted and do not shut properly. This has
been caused by movement (see section J1 Risks). When this problem has been resolved,
the door and frame should be repaired so that it closes properly."
The vendors said that their insurance didn't have any loading or higher excess in relation to this, and there had been no claims. It's a probate house, but no-one involved knew anything about movement. The first insurance company we approached said they wouldn't insure based on the information in the survey., so I went back to look myself.
After this, my comments to the surveyor were -
"My non-expert eye can't see the area that's been repaired, and only one area that needs repair, which is above the side door and is shown in the pictures below. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5dskxlnx1crht60/AAD-SwvyhcE2zFxBMCx5NgPsa?dl=0
"This strikes me as more an issue caused when the door was replaced, and the fitters haven't exactly been sympathetic and skilled around some of the windows either.
"Do you have pictures of the area that you think shows past movement?"
I also checked the internal and external doors, and the fit all seems fine to me, and better than most 1950s houses!
His reply was -
"Where the windows have been replaced, the bricks have settled onto the replacement frames and the mortar above has cracked, Some repairs have been carried out and there has been some more settlement since. If you explain to the insurance company that this is the cause of the movement, then they should be fine."
So, his reply is basically agreeing with me that the issue is due to the replacement doors and windows, so we just need a builder to make good this brickwork.
However, this is at odds with the survey, so I'm not sure what we should be telling insurance companies and whether we need any other kind of survey.
TBH, the survey let us negotiate a discount, but other than that, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
There were a few issues, but the main one was -
"The outside wall has been repaired and this indicates that movement has previously affected the building. You should ask your insurance company if these past problems would affect your ability to get insurance cover for this property.
"Some of the internal doors and frames are distorted and do not shut properly. This has
been caused by movement (see section J1 Risks). When this problem has been resolved,
the door and frame should be repaired so that it closes properly."
The vendors said that their insurance didn't have any loading or higher excess in relation to this, and there had been no claims. It's a probate house, but no-one involved knew anything about movement. The first insurance company we approached said they wouldn't insure based on the information in the survey., so I went back to look myself.
After this, my comments to the surveyor were -
"My non-expert eye can't see the area that's been repaired, and only one area that needs repair, which is above the side door and is shown in the pictures below. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5dskxlnx1crht60/AAD-SwvyhcE2zFxBMCx5NgPsa?dl=0
"This strikes me as more an issue caused when the door was replaced, and the fitters haven't exactly been sympathetic and skilled around some of the windows either.
"Do you have pictures of the area that you think shows past movement?"
I also checked the internal and external doors, and the fit all seems fine to me, and better than most 1950s houses!
His reply was -
"Where the windows have been replaced, the bricks have settled onto the replacement frames and the mortar above has cracked, Some repairs have been carried out and there has been some more settlement since. If you explain to the insurance company that this is the cause of the movement, then they should be fine."
So, his reply is basically agreeing with me that the issue is due to the replacement doors and windows, so we just need a builder to make good this brickwork.
However, this is at odds with the survey, so I'm not sure what we should be telling insurance companies and whether we need any other kind of survey.
TBH, the survey let us negotiate a discount, but other than that, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
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Comments
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I would ask the surveyer to be crystal clear as to the cause of and future effects of what he has observed in his professional capacity. I would then go with it rather than trying to play down issues as he could well be saving you from buying a house that may have potential future costly problems which is exactly what your paying him for.0
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I'd have got a structural engineer's report and bypassed the survey.
It sounds like you'll end up getting one now to satisfy the insurers and to purge the surveyor's ambiguity.I am a mortgage broker. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice. Please do not send PMs asking for one-to-one-advice, or representation.0 -
I'm close to 100% sure that there aren't any movement issues, but we'll probably end up paying £150 for a specialist survey to check this one specific issue anyway. Most annoying.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
That's the thing about engaging a professional: you are asking them for their opinion based on their training and experience. Not absolute guarantees. Try getting a doctor or a lawyer to give you an absolute guarantee: no dice.
By the way, £350 for a full structural survey is CHEAP0 -
The problem is that we seem to be getting a variety of opinions from the same person!I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
I would have expected there to be a lintel above each window opening to support the brickwork, so there would be no possibility of bricks settling on to new window frames.0
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I'm guessing the inner leaf has a lintel, probably timber, but the outer ones have shallow arches of bricks set in a soldier course. One of these arches has failed and needs a good builder to sort it out. The others all look fine to my eye and in pictures, but we can get them all checked.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
gadgetmind wrote: »The vendors said that their insurance didn't have any loading or higher excess in relation to this, and there had been no claims. It's a probate house, but no-one involved knew anything about movement.
Why would the vendors have the required knowledge given it's a probate sale. Possibly the full facts were never disclosed to the insurers.0 -
The vendor's statements are just another thing to stack alongside the surveyor's latest statements to try and piece things together. Of course, if the surveyor wasn't so vague, guessing wouldn't be required!I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »Why would the vendors have the required knowledge given it's a probate sale. Possibly the full facts were never disclosed to the insurers.
This certainly ties in with my experience of insuring properties that are the subject of probate.
You generally deal with their children who have not lived in the house for decades so are unaware of structural problems.
It's not uncommon to discover subsidence at this stage when surveys are carried out. This is often made more complicated by the probate property generally having no buildings cover immediately prior to the bereavement.0
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