The 'Vinonomics' of a wine bottle

antrobus

kinger101 wrote: »

There is some truth in what you have written, but having looked at the Guardian article, the experiment was very poorly designed and the results are essentially junk. It's rather sad, as Heriot Watt would have had scientists capable of designing the experiment correctly, but sadly they used a psychologist instead.

Which one? Are you referring to Robert Hodgson's research, Fr!d!ric Brochet's, Robert Goldstein's , or Richard Wiseman's?

Generali wrote: »

One interesting thing is that if you give people identical wines in blind tastings but put some of the wine in heavier bottles, people will rate the wine in the heavier bottle as better tasting on average.

Essentially, judgements on the 'quality' of food and drink, are largely subjective.

antrobus

lostinrates wrote: »

The supermarket wine price and 'half price' offers are confusing and bizarre. ....

Yes, of course they are! Confusion marketing at it's best.

lostinrates wrote: »

..I'm not a label queen by any means. I was amazed by Sainsbury's champagnes. I think they are pleasant indeed. ...

Despite having a fondness for Mercier Demi-Sec, I think champagne is massively over-priced for what it is.

Historically speaking, of course, wine from champagne was once regarded as being not very good, and not a patch on proper wine which came from Burgundy. Adding the bubbles was just a way of making it palatable and flogging the stuff.

But if you like it, and are prepared to pay for it, who cares?

kinger101

antrobus wrote: »

Which one? Are you referring to Robert Hodgson's research, Fr!d!ric Brochet's, Robert Goldstein's , or Richard Wiseman's?

The problem arises when you compare one bottle of Pinot Grigio v one bottle of Pino Grigio. It's a meaningless sample size. They should have had a panel of say ten bottles, with each person testing say 6. These should have been presented in a randomized order. If the judgement is on taste only, the drinks should have been presented in black glasses. The data at the end would have been more meaningful.

The wine styles in the "claret" example might not have even been standardized. Claret is just a red from the Bordeaux region. Depending on where, it might have been predominantly Cabernet Sauvignon or Merlot, depending on which side of the Gironde it may have been produced. Perhaps the subjects simply preferred the fruitier Merlot grape.

I'm not saying I'm rejecting the notion that people can't always differentiate between the price of wines. Just that these press releases seem to be based largely on what we refer to as "sampling error". I'm always cautious with university press releases. It's often weak science sexed up by the university's press office.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

lostinrates wrote: »

Brunello is very interesting wine. Beautiful. I have a couple of bottles here, and have not had one I have not liked.

What I like most about Brunello is that it always seems to deliver the core characteristics while still retaining some really interesting differences between individual wineries.

Not many wines or styles of winemaking can pull that off I think.

And I'd also agree, it's the only wine I've tried so far that I've never had a bottle I didn't like.

I agree enthusiastically with what you say Italian wines, but it think really most of the wines you mention are not underrated by most, particularly internationally.

I agree most people recognise those wines as being of good quality and many are certainly in demand, but I think they are still under-rated by comparison to some.

Brunello for example is not just a great Italian wine, it's one of the best wines in the World, but thankfully the price doesn't (yet) reflect that.

One of fir's school friends is a wine merchant in Florence

Which would have to be a contender for 'best job ever'....:D

Also fir has family friends who own a vineyard of quite some repute and they are generous.

OK - now I'm officially jealous.

lostinrates

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

What I like most about Brunello is that it always seems to deliver the core characteristics while still retaining some really interesting differences between individual wineries.

Not many wines or styles of winemaking can pull that off I think.

And I'd also agree, it's the only wine I've tried so far that I've never had a bottle I didn't like.



I agree most people recognise those wines as being of good quality and many are certainly in demand, but I think they are still under-rated by comparison to some.

Brunello for example is not just a great Italian wine, it's one of the best wines in the World, but thankfully the price doesn't (yet) reflect that.



Which would have to be a contender for 'best job ever'....:D



OK - now I'm officially jealous.

Brunello price has been / probably is impacted by recent criminal activity, ( half listening to conversations mainly about jazz in Italian on FaceTime.....) Iirc the moral of that story is that former employees can seriously damage wineries by getting in and opening the taps :eek:


Don't be jealous Hamish my friend, I cannot drink it and haven't been able to for a while, and don't know when I will.

The other day both my parents were here and shared a bottle of white burgundy that smelt fantastic, green, fresh but round. It was a warm evening and I'd cut the grass, the wall flowers were very fragrant indeed and I was serving fish for supper and by nose everything seemed very, very harmonious. I would have loved to have a sip of that wine while sitting in the garden. Instead I just tried to catch whiffs of it ...lol.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

lostinrates wrote: »

Crystal

Agreed, have to say the big bubbles brands are a bit over-hyped.

Krug, Dom, Crystal, etc, are all decent brands, and we have frequently drank them, but I'd rather drink something more interesting from a quality producer like Cattier, and the fact that it's a quarter of the price is a nice bonus.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

lostinrates wrote: »

Brunello price has been / probably is impacted by recent criminal activity, ( half listening to conversations mainly about jazz in Italian on FaceTime.....) Iirc the moral of that story is that former employees can seriously damage wineries by getting in and opening the taps :eek:

For sure - it's a small enough region and total quantity of output that losing a few years production form even one winery will make a difference.

But then there was Brunellogate not all that long ago either, which depressed the price because of blending accusation...

From one extreme to the other!

lostinrates

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

For sure - it's a small enough region and total quantity of output that losing a few years production form even one winery will make a difference.

But then there was Brunellogate not all that long ago either, which depressed the price because of blending accusation...

From one extreme to the other!

Ah.....have I heard that? I cannot remember, it sounds very familiar....but I cannot put my finger on the information. Hmmm.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

lostinrates wrote: »

Ah.....have I heard that? I cannot remember, it sounds very familiar....but I cannot put my finger on the information. Hmmm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunellopoli

purch

lostinrates wrote: »

I'm not a label queen by any means. I was amazed by Sainsbury's champagnes. I think they are pleasant indeed. If other people raise an eyebrow when we serve them over a label ( one of the few things I buy from Sainsbury's and IMO worth getting when on offer, I prefer dry champagnes but their Demi sec is decent) then they might be people who go on weight of glass, colour of plate or can afford to regularly pop Crystal ( a champagne I personally have only tasted once and was not blown away by!)

There is only one Champagne

16 rue Jules Lobet, Ay, Marne 51160