The 'Vinonomics' of a wine bottle

kinger101

antrobus wrote: »

The truth is that study after study has shown that not only that most people can't tell the difference between cheap and expensive wine, those people that claim to be wine experts can't tell the difference either.

Expensive wine and cheap plonk taste the same to most people
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/apr/14/expensive-wine-cheap-plonk-taste

Wine-tasting: it's junk science
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-tasting-junk-science-analysis

Wine — it’s all in your head
http://nypost.com/2011/05/15/wine-its-all-in-your-head/

Keep the Cheap Wine Flowing
http://freakonomics.com/2008/07/24/keep-the-cheap-wine-flowing/

The really interesting thing about 'vinonomics' is that it's 99% bovine excrement.:)

There is some truth in what you have written, but having looked at the Guardian article, the experiment was very poorly designed and the results are essentially junk. It's rather sad, as Heriot Watt would have had scientists capable of designing the experiment correctly, but sadly they used a psychologist instead.

Generali

michaels wrote: »

Here ya go Hamish

Reduced to clear wine £1.50 Asda

If you look very closely at the label it says:

"For external use only. If ingested do not induce vomiting. Seek medical advice immediately".

Generali

kinger101 wrote: »

There is some truth in what you have written, but having looked at the Guardian article, the experiment was very poorly designed and the results are essentially junk. It's rather sad, as Heriot Watt would have had scientists capable of designing the experiment correctly, but sadly they used a psychologist instead.

One interesting thing is that if you give people identical wines in blind tastings but put some of the wine in heavier bottles, people will rate the wine in the heavier bottle as better tasting on average.

lostinrates

kabayiri wrote: »

When a well known lager decided some time back to rebrand as premium they spent no more on the drinkable content but instead invested heavily in tooling for the fancy embossed logo.

Sometimes, paying more doesn't improve the content I guess.

No it doesn't, there are cheap wines in Rustic places that have a wonderful appeal. A sweeter, fizzer, red than I normally like, sipped from a terracotta bowl with mountain food and costing very little completes the experience more for me than an expensive Barolo or similar might. ( but on a different occasion and meal or to drink alone I would certainly opt for the latter).

What most people, as one of those studies looks at, might do, is a bit of a non issue. Most people wear perfumes that they like and I might not wear, might choose their food on different considerations and so on and so on. What we all choose to do is different. Its very silly to spend a lot of money on something that makes no difference to one as an individual, and if you cannot tell the difference between a very cheap bottle of wine and something very expensive then great for you wallet, and pity for your taste buds in some cases but I would certainly agree not all


A family member offered me a birthday gift of a bottle of wine up to the value of eighty pounds this year ( before being told I couldn't 'to drink anymore). I might have asked if I did, if I could have had a couple of bottles instead, to the value. An eighty pound bottle for home drinking would be a big investment for me ( I have to admit I have been at tables out where more has been spent on bottles) and if we had a bottle worth that much at home it would be something to lay down, and then there would be fairly big commitment to the event that made me want to open it, because fir would not be as interested as I frankly, and its too 'small' an investment bottle to invite friends down for the opening of, but too big too just want to enjoy it on a nice Saturday night with only me really treasuring it so much. ( or deciding its a disappointment:rotfl:)

lostinrates

Generali wrote: »

One interesting thing is that if you give people identical wines in blind tastings but put some of the wine in heavier bottles, people will rate the wine in the heavier bottle as better tasting on average.

Is it so surprising? We know experience adds value to our appreciation. Weight has come to mean something........if people think its 'quality' their taste buds look out for it. I will happily drink champagne from a mug, but in my heart I think it tastes better from a glass, and somehow, I think my experience is better when I can be bothered to get the crystal out. Regardless of the shape of the glass stuff, I just like it. I also quite like a champagne bowl, but they are so darn top heavy .....:D

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

lostinrates wrote: »

No it doesn't, there are cheap wines in Rustic places that have a wonderful appeal. A sweeter, fizzer, red than I normally like, sipped from a terracotta bowl with mountain food and costing very little completes the experience more for me than an expensive Barolo or similar might.

:T

if we had a bottle worth that much at home it would be something to lay down,

We have a developed over time a real appreciation for some Italian red wines and styles of winemaking, particularly Brunello di Montalcino, the Supertuscans and better Chianti's, Amarone della Valpolicella, Barolo, Montepulciano, etc.

And to be fair, Italian whites are often under-rated, Mrs McT generally loves any of the even half-decent Gavi, Orvieto, Soave or Verdiccio wines.

I think they offer some of the best bang for the buck of any old world offerings, and frankly, blow some of the classical French wines out of the water.

And because of that they really, really don't need to be expensive to buy if you're willing to lay them down for a while. We have cases in our cellar (along with some equally serious (relative to France anyway) new world bargains) that will give some of the French first growths a real run for their money in a a decade, at a fraction of the price.

And you don't need to feel guilty drinking them before then...

Generali

lostinrates wrote: »

Is it so surprising? We know experience adds value to our appreciation. Weight has come to mean something........if people think its 'quality' their taste buds look out for it. I will happily drink champagne from a mug, but in my heart I think it tastes better from a glass, and somehow, I think my experience is better when I can be bothered to get the crystal out. Regardless of the shape of the glass stuff, I just like it. I also quite like a champagne bowl, but they are so darn top heavy .....:D

There are quite a few interesting things about taste to have come out of behavioural economics.

For example, one experiment involved making a strawberry mousse and then serving it either on a white or black plate. The diners were then asked to score the mousse on four criteria:

> Sweetness
> Flavour intensity
> Quality
> Liking

When served on a white plate, all attributes except quality were shown to be notably higher.

Now the study I refer to has confounding factors, not least of which is a very small sample size. However, further studies have been done and generally show sweetness and intensity to be increased by about a quarter when served on a white vs a black plate.

lostinrates

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

:T



We have a developed over time a real appreciation for some Italian red wines and styles of winemaking, particularly Brunello di Montalcino, the Supertuscans and better Chianti's, Amarone della Valpolicella, Barolo, Montepulciano, etc.

And to be fair, Italian whites are often under-rated, Mrs McT generally loves any of the even half-decent Gavi, Orvieto, Soave or Verdiccio wines.

I think they offer some of the best bang for the buck of any old world offerings, and frankly, blow some of the classical French wines out of the water.

And because of that they really, really don't need to be expensive to buy if you're willing to lay them down for a while. We have cases in our cellar (along with some equally serious (relative to France anyway) new world bargains) that will give some of the French first growths a real run for their money in a a decade, at a fraction of the price.

And you don't need to feel guilty drinking them before then...

Brunello is very interesting wine. Beautiful. I have a couple of bottles here, and have not had one I have not liked. A friend of a friend has a connection......:p I have had some disappointing barolos. Not hideous ones, but ones that I think under delivered, or maybe I was craving chocolate or something . I agree enthusiastically with what you say Italian wines, but it think really most of the wines you mention are not underrated by most, particularly internationally.

One of fir's school friends is a wine merchant in Florence now and if I can ever drink again he will start sending us cases again of things to delight and try. Also fir has family friends who own a vineyard of quite some repute and they are generous.

antrobus

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Perhaps, but it is fairly well accepted that most people like certain styles of wine over others......

That would be exactly the thing. Either you like it or you don't.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

..That sounds like the sort of thing someone that drinks £3 a bottle wine says to make themselves feel better....;)

Yes, but just think how much better you'd feel drinking an £8 bottle of wine that you'd only paid £3 for.:rotfl:

lostinrates

antrobus wrote: »

That would be exactly the thing. Either you like it or you don't.



Yes, but just think how much better you'd feel drinking an £8 bottle of wine that you'd only paid £3 for.:rotfl:

The supermarket wine price and 'half price' offers are confusing and bizarre. Its quite possible to buy decent' plonk' and only ever pay half price for it, that's what we used to do. Something we didn't know I'd try a bottle of and if it was nice I'd buy a case, if not not worry. ( I just kept a list of them so only had to try them once the offers repeat on same wines so often). If its a type of wine you know you like then you might feel like taking a gamble but IMO their is no harm trying a bottle first.

I'm not a label queen by any means. I was amazed by Sainsbury's champagnes. I think they are pleasant indeed. If other people raise an eyebrow when we serve them over a label ( one of the few things I buy from Sainsbury's and IMO worth getting when on offer, I prefer dry champagnes but their Demi sec is decent) then they might be people who go on weight of glass, colour of plate or can afford to regularly pop Crystal ( a champagne I personally have only tasted once and was not blown away by!)