Help needed with Probate

Mchambers

Hi all,

My friend's mother has died. She has left a will nominating her husband (her dad) as sole executioner. By the way, she has multiple savings accounts so her will is fairly complex. My friend needs help as she doesn't know how to help her dad :

1.. She is not an expert on probate.

2.. Her mum had numerous savings and investment accounts in her name; some of which were above £15k.

3.. She thinks that she needs probate for the accounts only above £15k. The others accounts are not needed for probate. Is this correct ?

4.. Her dad thinks that her will has been worded carefully enough to avoid inheritance tax. Can anyone please advise.

5.. The mother and her dad owned their property outright.

6.. She and her dad are meeting the solicitors, which helped draw up the will, next week to talk about probate. Are these the right people to talk to ?

7.. How long will probate take to sort out to ?

8.. How much will the solicitors charge for probate ?

9.. What else should she do to help her dad ?

10.. What template letters can anyone recommend for talking to Building Societies, banks, investment companies, etc. ?

My friend is really struggling emotionally but I can't help her as I don't know anything. Any help would be much appreciated for her and her dad.

g6jns_2

Mchambers wrote: »

Hi all,

My friend's mother has died. She has left a will nominating her husband (her dad) as sole executioner. By the way, she has multiple savings accounts so her will is fairly complex. My friend needs help as she doesn't know how to help her dad :

1.. She is not an expert on probate.

2.. Her mum had numerous savings and investment accounts in her name; some of which were above £15k.

3.. She thinks that she needs probate for the accounts only above £15k. The others accounts are not needed for probate. Is this correct ?

4.. Her dad thinks that her will has been worded carefully enough to avoid inheritance tax. Can anyone please advise.

5.. The mother and her dad owned their property outright.

6.. She and her dad are meeting the solicitors, which helped draw up the will, next week to talk about probate. Are these the right people to talk to ?

7.. How long will probate take to sort out to ?

8.. How much will the solicitors charge for probate ?

9.. What else should she do to help her dad ?

10.. What template letters can anyone recommend for talking to Building Societies, banks, investment companies, etc. ?

My friend is really struggling emotionally but I can't help her as I don't know anything. Any help would be much appreciated for her and her dad.

There is plenty of help here. If a property is involved then probate is usually required. I assume you mean that some financial bodies such as banks will release funds of smaller accounts without seeing a grant of
Probate but others will not. All the account values, unless they are joint accounts, will have to be accounted for. A solicitor will charge a lot to complete probate but it is fairly Eastport to DIY. How much IHT is payable depends on the estate value and who the beneficiaries are. Which publish a very helpful book on the subject.

Brown_Bear_2

It is a difficult time and my thoughts are with your friend.
1. You do not need to be an expert to understand the process. Probate is the legal document issued by Probate Registry to those responsible in the administration of a deceased person’s estate (typically executors). This is done once Inland Revenue are satisfied that the estate is accounted for and any taxes (IHT) have been paid. It gives reserved powers to those people to liquidate/transfer assets, pay liabilities and pay inheritance to beneficiaries.
2. Asset holders like banks will have varying limits for probate before releasing funds. However it is normally best practice to release the assets if the whole estate requires probate, even if there is a small amount held. By releasing the funds to the persons named on the Grant of probate the bank are absolved of responsibility as that passes onto the named people. That is why they will ask if the estate requires probate.
3. If there is a Will and assets are passing to the husband then they are exempt (assets passing to a charity are also exempt). The Inheritance Tax threshold is £325k. So you subtract this “allowance” against the net value of the estate that is not exempt. So for example if the estate was to pass completely to the husband then there will be no Inheritance Tax to pay.
4. If the property was jointly held then it will pass directly to surviving spouse and does not rely upon presenting probate to the land registry. The value of the share will be only be required for the probate forms but are “exempt” from the estate value used for inheritance tax.
5. Solicitors are an option. I've read that 3 in 5 people use a professional service such as solicitors and the rest chose to do it themselves.
6. I’ve had to do probate for family a few times now and if there are no complications, disputes or there is no inheritance tax then it is not a difficult process. It is time consuming to do. There is plenty of resources now on the net to help and you can always call upon professional help when needed.
7. Fees can be hourly or they will charge a % fee of the estate plus disbursements. My family was quoted fees upwards of 2%-4% of the estate value
Google apply for probate and you will see HMRC or go to "gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/overview"
Alternatively I found sites like the
"diyprobateforms.co.uk" and "theinheritanceguide.com" very useful. There are plenty of sites that explain the process and offer templates etc.
I hope that this is useful.

Mchambers

Thanks for your response Brown Bear. The home is staying with the husband and most of savings accounts, investments, etc. are staying with him. From your response, I am assuming that he will be practically exempt from IHT. There are two children and two grand-children involved as who the mother/gran has given cash sums to them.

For the father, I guess that he should start splitting the property and money to the kids and granchildren to stop their children them being hit with IHT ?

troubleinparadise

Mchambers wrote: »

For the father, I guess that he should start splitting the property and money to the kids and granchildren to stop their children them being hit with IHT ?

It depends how much of the potentially £650,000 IHT threshold will still be available on the death of the father.

Whatever monies have been bequeathed to the children/grandchildren from the mother's estate will be deducted. After that, will his estate with the value of the house and other assets exceed £650,000 (less the value of mother's bequests)? If that is likely, then he might need to look at tax planning to reduce the amount that might be paid. He should take financial and legal advice to ensure that any decisions he makes are the best for him.

IHT is paid from the estate, not by his children (heirs). But of course a deduction of IHT will reduce the amount his heirs might receive.

getmore4less

Splitting property needs very careful planning.
Look up
Gift with reservation
Pre owned assets
Deprivation of assets.
Those are just starters...

Mchambers

Just to let you know, my friend is going to have a go at probate herself rather than involve expensive solicitors. Thanks all for your responses.

Brown_Bear_2

As getmore4less and troubleinparadise have stated, careful planning is required if the estate worth more than the combined IHT allowance. By the sound of things some of the mothers allowance will be used up by inheritance passing to children and grandchildren.

Your friend should give it a go as there are sites online that can help through that process. Failing that she can instruct a solicitor at any time.

G6JNS

Mchambers wrote: »

Just to let you know, my friend is going to have a go at probate herself rather than involve expensive solicitors. Thanks all for your responses.

Since she know so little about the process she would be well advised to get some professional advice about possible Deeds of Variation etc. from an IHT specialist. The cost should be less than the amount probably saved.

ferger

Mchambers wrote: »

My friend is really struggling emotionally but I can't help her as I don't know anything. Any help would be much appreciated for her and her dad.

The process isn't difficult - but it can be complex and certainly time-consuming if the financial assets are distributed across many institutions and types. Add another few days effort in if there's an inheritance tax bill - although, from what you've said, this sounds unlikely to be the case. If you're methodical, process oriented and reasonably intelligent... that will help.

I'm just coming to the end of it for my father's estate - he died at the end of last year, I applied for probate and submitted the IHT return about 6 weeks ago, got the grant on Friday. Final clearance for tax will probably take another couple of months apparently. Yesterday I sat down and wrote 16 letters to various institutions, registrars etc, completed god knows how many stock transfers essentially worked from 10am to almost midnight, with an eye on the cricket on Sky Go... :-) I've had several days like this in the last few months. By the time I get to the end of it all, I reckon I'll have clocked up well over 100 hours. I don't think, in truth, I could have got through it any quicker either - I have chased every laggardly response, responded immediately to stuff that needed it etc. Have sent around 60 letters, am up to 230 notes in Evernote, attic full of bank statements, tax records, legal docs blah blah.

Death of first spouse is inherently likely to be a lot simpler. The second - as in my case - is where all the hard work is likely to kick in. But, relatively well paid though I am, I can't earn £18k for two and a half week's work - which is what Barclays (who were the named executors) would have charged. And, even if you let someone else do it, you'll still have to do most of the running around yourself anyway - they're not going to come to your house and start turning out the filing cabinets. It's positively criminal what the banks (in particular) will charge to do the form filling.

ferger

PS I used this book to get my head round it, before I did anything that wasn't essential (like arrange a funeral!):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Probate-obtaining-probate-administering-estate/dp/1845284097/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1430741946&sr=1-1&keywords=probate

An earlier post of mine:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5202094