Enduring Power of Attorney (again)

phoebe03cat

Yep, will be all signed up within the hour! Then will see a solicitor when dd2 is 18:eek:Thanks again

Biggles

phoebe03cat wrote: »

Yep, will be all signed up within the hour! Then will see a solicitor when dd2 is 18

Well, see what the LPA form looks like to you when the time comes, it's not actually that much more arduous than the EPA form, so you probably won't need a solicitor.

mary43

I've just enquired with my Mum's solicitor about changing the EPA to a LPA. Seems it will cost £150.
I know I'm a bit late but I was wanting to sort my own affairs out and appoint a Power of Attorney so would it make more sense to have a LPA from the start? Is this possible ? My brother sorted out all the legal side of things when Mum was first ill but now he's passed it over to me to sort out.
Mum isn't as mentally capable as she was so I feel something needs doing.

Biggles

mary43 wrote: »

I've just enquired with my Mum's solicitor about changing the EPA to a LPA.

Are you saying you already have an EPA, Mary? If that's the case, and if your Mum is now losing mental capacity, you can register it for £120 (no solicitor needed).

If you haven't an EPA, and therefore need to start from scratch, you can complete an LPA (guidance and forms on the Public Guardian's website http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/). If you're just talking about her financial affairs for the moment, the forms aren't that much more demanding than the EPA forms, just more pages, and the guidance notes are good. You would then need to register it before you can use it, that is £150.

If she's already lost mental capacity, it would be too late to set up an LPA and you would need to apply to the Court of Protection (details also on the above website). This will take time and be expensive (several hundred pounds).

Savvy_Sue

I think that if you didn't set up an EPA before the end of September, then the only thing you can set up now is an LPA.

What I don't understand is why you need to change your mum's EPA to an LPA. Is it rather time to activate her EPA?

Sorry, cross posted with Biggles, who appears to know more about this kind of thing than me!

Biggles

I suspect Mary means 'changing from planning an EPA to planning an LPA' rather than 'changing the EPA to an LPA'. But we'll see.....

mary43

If she's already lost mental capacity, it would be too late to set up an LPA and you would need to apply to the Court of Protection (details also on the above website). This will take time and be expensive (several hundred pounds).

Thanks Biggles and Sue.
Both me and my brother share EPA and have done since Mum was first taken ill. We've handled all her finances for her so she had no worries as far as that went. It's just that now she seems to be losing her mental capacity to make any decisions for herself on anything -mind you, can't think what she'd have to decide about. She's already done a funeral plan, discussed with us prior to this recent deteriation about not to resussetate etc.
I rang the solicitor to query signing any cheques that needed signing, i.e. hair dos, chiropodist, as Mum now doesn't even bother to use the one usable hand she had but it was only her name on the cheque book. No problem there apparently as solicitor says both me and my brother can sign and put 'attorney' underneath so that sorts that out.
Is it worth going to the trouble to change it to LPA as her solicitor suggested ? If that will take time.............which if I'm honest I;m not sure how long she's got..............and a lot more money from her account than I just don't see the point. Solicitor did mention the Court of Protection and the website . I looked through it and got a bit confused I must admit.
There really is only myself and my brother involved but the solicitor implied that we could land outselves in trouble if we made a decision on Mums behalf and someone disagreed with it, had we not done it the proper way.
It's all been a bit of a minefield and seems just when we feel we've sorted everything out to run smoothly this crops up. Doesn't help that my brother lives in Spain.

Savvy_Sue

I think the main difference between the EPA and the LPA is that the EPA mostly covers financial 'stuff', whereas the LPA has got different sections covering "what I want you to do in this part of my affairs" or "I don't want you to make decisions on my behalf in this part of my affairs". So, a lot more scope.

However, if your mum's got her wishes set out already I'd agree that there's not a lot of point. The only thing is that the LPA may have more legal force eg in terms of DNR etc.

It sounds - and I'm not an expert, just read up about it before doing my EPA in a tearing hurry! - as if you need to 'register' the EPA now so that you can legally do what you're already doing, without challenge. I think there will be stuff on the website about that which I would have a look at.

Hope I'm making sense ... long day!

Biggles

It does sound a little as though your solicitor might be a bit confused. If you already have an EPA (and if, as Sue says, we are only talking about managing her financial affairs etc) then, when she loses (or is losing) her mental capacity, you can just register the EPA with the Office of the Public Guardian (the forms are on their website, the registration fee is £120). You don't need an LPA to manage her affairs, the EPA already does that.

But he is wrong if he says that all you have to do is sign her cheque and put 'Attorney for M Smith' beneath it. If you want to operate her bank account, you must take the EPA to the bank and they will record you (and/or your brother - is it joint or joint & several?) as the signatory(ies) on her account. Cheques signed by you beforehand will be rejected. I would take it to the bank before registering it, to be honest, as they will take a copy on the day, then you can proceed with the registration. That will take a few weeks, as you have to give notice to relatives first etc. Let me know if you can't find the forms on the new website, they were on the old one but it's all changed now!

And, in the meantime, never let the EPA out of your sight. It's all you have and, if your Mum's losing mental capacity, it might not be possible to do what your solicitor says and get a new LPA signed. If you need to send it off somewhere, get your solicitor to make a 'certified copy' first. He probably won't charge, and a certified copy is a lot safer to send by post, while you keep the original.

Biggles

sloughflint wrote: »

I my case I have never seen the original copy. I was only ever given certified copies.

Well, that's not a problem as long as you know where the original is, presumably your solicitor is holding it for safe keeping? Normally a certified copy is enough for anyone but some, eg the bank, might insist on an original.

There seems to be a lot of difference of opinion around re the "is losing bit".
It can be hard to judge when is the right time.People can be unable to assimilate when they are tired, have poor memories but able to rationalize in short bursts.
I was told that if there are more bad times than good then that's the time to register.I suppose at the end of the day, if the person is safe, it doesn't matter. Is it just me that would rather not have to register?

We're in the same position really. Mum is perfectly rational, just fairly confused a lot of the time. We possibly ought to be thinking about registering it but the procedure includes sending the donor a notification (as well as the three nearest relatives) and I'd find it hard to do that bit at present. But things are working fine as they are, and I talk all decisions over with her and the near family.