Admiral Car Insurance - Unfair Admin Fee

weejangus

Hi All,

Was just looking for your thoughts around an admin fee that my wife has been charged by the good people at Admiral.

She's recently taken out a policy with them and when asked how long she had held her licence, she put "10 Years". The date shown on her licence is Nov 2004. After taking out the policy, Admiral conducted an audit on her and asked for a copy of her licence which she provided. They have now noted that her "Category B" start date is actually April 2007 and have therefore amended the policy to "8 Years". The increase in premium is literally a few pennies a month and I'm fine with that. It was clearly a misunderstanding when completing the application online. Im not happy that they have also thrown a £30 Admin Fee on top of that.

I get that Admin Fees are charged by most insurers when making changes to policies however I feel that this one is particularly unfair.

Admirals application doesn't ask "How long have you been able to drive Category B vehicles", it simply asks "How long have you held this licence". As the licence was issued in 2004, she honestly answered "10 Years".

She's gone back to Admiral asking for the fee to be removed based on an ambiguous question on the application but what do you reckon the chances are of having it removed?

Oh, and one more thing, the Category B date on the licence doesn't confirm when you passed your test. Mine states March 2003 however I passed in July 2001 (and I checked my own licence on the DVLA's website and it confirms July 2001). So she could possibly use this argument too?

Thanks in advance.

InsideInsurance

The website asks what type of license you hold and subsequently asks how long you have held THIS license. Thankfully for you there is no help text on the question so its what it says on the surface.

So based on the question, if you select full uk license you can only count the time you've had a full uk license and not any time you had a provisional or non-uk licenses etc.

When did she pass her UK driving test and submit the papers to get her full uk license?

Ultimately, log your complaint and raise it to the FOS if you arent happy with their response

adrian1982dragon

If this was a genuine mistake then you need to explain the circumstances to admiral about the confusion on the question set. Should you have answered as accurately as you could based on the information you provided the the administration fee could be seen as a penalty and this breaches the terms of Treating Customers Fairly. I would complain to their customer complaints department (although insurance companies don't generally have a complaints department as they use words like customer journey or escalation department!!). You need to quote the Financial Conduct Authority principals of Treating Customers Fairly, specifically:

Outcome 1: Consumers can be confident that they are dealing with firms where the fair treatment of customers is central to the corporate culture.

Outcome 3: Consumers are provided with clear information and are kept appropriately informed before, during and after the point of sale.

Outcome 6: Consumers do not face unreasonable post-sale barriers imposed by firms to change product, switch provider, submit a claim or make a complaint. (if there is any difficulty in lodging a complaint)

dunstonh

You need to quote the Financial Conduct Authority principals of Treating Customers Fairly, specifically:

You dont need to quote anything. Just an expression of dissatisfaction. Although stating that you want to complain is usually the best way. How the OP posted the information in post #1 indicates they have the ability to lay out information in a simple and understandable way and that would be sufficient.

weejangus

InsideInsurance wrote: »

The website asks what type of license you hold and subsequently asks how long you have held THIS license. Thankfully for you there is no help text on the question so its what it says on the surface.

Thanks, yeah I wonder if they would try and use that reasoning but as you say, no help text. So anserwing as a stand alone question, she did technically answer correctly. She didn't know (as I'm sure many others out there don't know either) that it's Category B that covers her to drive a car.

adrian1982dragon wrote: »

If this was a genuine mistake then you need to explain the circumstances to admiral about the confusion on the question set. Should you have answered as accurately as you could based on the information you provided the the administration fee could be seen as a penalty and this breaches the terms of Treating Customers Fairly.

Good call, it didn't even occur to me to go down the "treating customers fairly" route. We have currently emailed Admiral and our argument is around the ambiguous question. As it forms part of the contract and can be interpreted more than one way, any complaint to the FCA would likely go in favour of the party that didn't write the contract - I.E. the wife! If that fails, I will get in touch with the complaints dept (phone number and email address of Complaints Team is actually well advertised by Admiral so fair play there!). I will then use both arguments with them.

It's only pushed her monthly payments up by about £2 a month so it's not the end of the world but I just hate the thought that they are taking it for an honest misunderstanding. I mean, the difference in the premium is only about £5 over the whole year and she's happy to pay that. Why lie over a £5 difference?

weejangus

dunstonh wrote: »

How the OP posted the information in post #1 indicates they have the ability to lay out information in a simple and understandable way and that would be sufficient.

Thanks Dunstonh, much appreciated. Will keep you all updated, hopefully we'll get the fee waived!

InsideInsurance

weejangus wrote: »

Thanks, yeah I wonder if they would try and use that reasoning but as you say, no help text. So anserwing as a stand alone question, she did technically answer correctly. She didn't know (as I'm sure many others out there don't know either) that it's Category B that covers her to drive a car.

It would be easier to understand if you gave a bit more of the background... did she have a full motorbike license first and subsequently did the car test or ..... ?

JimmyTheWig

weejangus wrote: »

So anserwing as a stand alone question, she did technically answer correctly. She didn't know (as I'm sure many others out there don't know either) that it's Category B that covers her to drive a car.

I'm sure you are right that many don't know that category B is for driving a car. (Even looking at the pictures and using google I struggle to work out what category is what.)

But I would imagine that most people would realise that when applying for insurance to drive a car you need to put in the date when you got your licence that allows you to drive a car.

weejangus

InsideInsurance wrote: »

It would be easier to understand if you gave a bit more of the background... did she have a full motorbike license first and subsequently did the car test or ..... ?

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

But I would imagine that most people would realise that when applying for insurance to drive a car you need to put in the date when you got your licence that allows you to drive a car.

Probably be easier to answer you both together.

Just to clarify, my wife has only ever been issued with a Licence to drive a car. She has never been on a Motorbike and has no desire to as far as I know. She turned 17 in November 2004 and applied for her provisional licence. Her car licence was therefore issued in 2004. She then passed her test in April 2007. So Admiral could argue that she didn't have her FULL licence until 2007 however the application doesn't ask that specifically (although it is implied in the previous question as InsideInsurance mentioned above).

Interesting thing is, the "Category B Valid From Date" doesn't actually show the date you passed your test. Mine, for example, shows my Category B as valid from March 2003 when I actually passed my test in July 2001. No idea why.

JimmyTheWig

I'm afraid that it sounds to me like it is reasonable to expect people to give the date they got their full licence in answer to that question.

And so it is reasonable for Admiral to charge to make the change to the policy. Annoying for you, but reasonable.

No reason not to complain (nicely) to Admiral and hope for a goodwill gesture. But I don't think you'll be successful if you tried taking it past there.

weejangus

Thanks Jimmy, I appreciate where you're coming from and I get that it makes sense to provide details from when you recieve a full licence.

Unfortunately, I don't agree that a £30 admin fee is justified in this case. I do think that the questioning is a little ambiguous on Admirals website and I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few of Admirals customers have been caught out by this.