Can HMRC request this??

chrismac1

The OP posted that his stepson was making direct transfers into his bank account. Therefore on each one the OPs bank statements will show the sort code and account number, all HMRC need to see is something such as a cheque book or statement HEADER from the stepson showing he is the beneficial owner of the account in question.

I doubt if either Sam or the previous poster to this thread has any experience of dealing with HMRC. The "give HMRC whatever they ask for" mindset almost always leads, as per my previous posts, to longer enquiries and higher costs.

As I have said before, you need to be VERY robust with HMRC when they cross the line in terms of information requests in order to do an effective job in getting an enquiry closed down with minimal fuss and cost.

SeniorSam

OK, so you would advocate that the OP tells the HMRC that he thinks the request is not valid, according to your expertise. So, the enquiry will just drag on until thre HMRC have the information they need and will not be cleared up until then. How very silly.

Responding with the information requested gets the result of the matter being cleared up. If HMRC request any information from me to clarify something, why should I object? I don't wish to be obstinate or awkward about it, or want to show that I am in charge.

A waste of time and rather poor information from any professional, unless they are just wanting to drum up business.

Sam

Coneygree

I'm not saying challenge the system, I'm saying there is no law to state he has to provide his stepsons statements. And for the people calling me an idiot and asking me what I am on, neither of you have yet showed me the LAW where he has to.

That's because there isn't one, and before you come back with an act, iv said countless time, he has to consent to an act....

SeniorSam

.................. you must be on something. There may be no law, but simple common sense should prevail. Your methods would just cause longer delays for the client. The sort of thing that solicitors like to indulge in ....... but lets not get into that.

Sam

chrismac1

You may be an IFA, but you're not much of an accountant I am afraid. When you tell HMRC you think their information request is not valid in some area - whilst giving them the information they are entitled to -and you ROBUSTLY tell them that they are going to need to cite tax law to get the information, they pretty much always collapse in a heap and stop asking for it.

HMRC might have operated as dedicated professionals like IFAs and accountants 25 years ago, they don't any more. Just look up my posting history on this site for numerous examples where the integrity of HMRC has been found wanting.

JUST ABOUT EVERY enquiry they open up these days contains requests for spurious information, they are flying a kite and they know they are. When you refuse robustly, far from lengthening the enquiry it very often stops then and there. My last full blown one was April 14 to August 14, only a very robust letter in July from me brought the so-called inspector to her senses and persuaded her to issue a closure notice.

Prioir to my letter, she had requested my client to send FOUR YEARS of bank statements, invoices, and diaries to Liverpool which is 170 miles away from where my client operates.

When, instead of having to do this, my client received the closure notice, did she:

A. Cheer with relief and call me with heartfelt thanks.
B. Think why the hell did I hire this guy he does not know how to deal with HMRC. Where did I put Senior Sam's business card?

Answers on a postcard to Senior Sam, Sanatogen Towers, Dufferville.

SeniorSam

It will be interesting to see which approach the OP takes on this. The logical, simple step, or the agressive 'I know better' approach.

I retired at 70 some years ago and although my dealings with HMRC may not have been as often as your own, I preferred the simple life and tried to be helpful and sincere, managing to get results every time without delay.

Perhaps the 'pushy' approach you have is preferred these days.

zygurat789

SeniorSam wrote: »

It will be interesting to see which approach the OP takes on this. The logical, simple step, or the agressive 'I know better' approach.

I retired at 70 some years ago and although my dealings with HMRC may not have been as often as your own, I preferred the simple life and tried to be helpful and sincere, managing to get results every time without delay.

Perhaps the 'pushy' approach you have is preferred these days.

If you look at the original post you will see that the transactions which have given rise to thiis request are a perfectly normal family transaction. The stepson has given money to his stepfather it is a recorded bank transaction and has, presumably, been admitted.
The "pushy" approach is coming from HMRC whon is acting beyond their legal powers, probably hoping to find evidence of undisclosed trading ie fishing.
All the dark comments should be directed to HMRC where they are deserved.

Coneygree

Exactly, you said it yourself, there is no law, so he doesn't have to provide them. Whatever opinion you or I have about sending them in to hrmc, he simply doesn't have to, and they can't force him to.

If he has nothing to hide, then yes, send them in get it cleared up, but he is not obliged to..

chrismac1

Let me absolutely spell this out. Up to 1995 or so I would not have advocated this approach in dealing with Inland Revenue. In my dealings with the Revenue Service of Ireland and the Bulgarian tax authorities in the past few years I have not taken this approach either, and doubt if I would in a full-blown enquiry.

These tax authorities are still run professionally, at an early stage you get to discuss matters with a properly qualified inspector who knows the tax legislation concerned. This stopped being the case a long time ago with HMRC, it is a black swan event in 2015.

So I cut my cloth accordingly. Because in essence you are dealing with a less senior person who is pretty much a box-ticker, you need a different approach. I do two very nice and polite letters answering the requests succinctly without providing needless detail. If that does not kill the enquiry, I get my hob-nailed boots on and seek to intimidate the hell out of the box-ticker.

Being these days quite a junior person with little experience, when you make it clear that you are prepared to damage his or her career prospects if they keep on asking daft questions, it normally gets the job done and they write a closure notice instead.

SeniorSam

Thanks Chris,

I didnt realise that you make those sort of threats 'when you make it clear that you are prepared to damage his or her career prospect ....s

It obviously produces results for you.

Sam