Has Capitalism Met the Marxist Utopia?

padington

Cornucopia wrote: »

So not private property i.e. wealth, at all?

Wealth is private property in the Marxist sense.

padington

antrobus wrote: »

Nothing at all like the NHS.

Your 'contribution' consists of your labour which "has become not only a means of life but life's prime want". It's not a question of 'affording' anything; you work for nothing, everything is free, and money has ceased to exist.

Thats 100% communist. I'm talking about the here and now, 39% communist, remember.

Cornucopia

padington wrote: »

Wealth is private property in the Marxist sense.

Okay, so you are mixing real data from the Capitalist World, with Marxist terminology. I think that might get confusing.

The broader point is that a society cannot be "39% Communist", whatever that means. Communism is absolute and absolutist.

The reality is that in present-day Western Europe, the prevailing model is a Capitalist free economy together with a Welfare State often founded on Socialist principles. In other words, a Mixed Economy.

Your 39% is the proportion of Welfare State and other State provisions of the whole, i.e. the formula for "the Mix". It has nothing to do with Communism, which is an entirely different concept.

padington

Cornucopia wrote: »

Okay, so you are mixing real data from the Capitalist World, with Marxist terminology. I think that might get confusing.

The broader point is that a society cannot be "39% Communist", whatever that means. Communism is absolute and absolutist.

The reality is that in present-day Western Europe, the prevailing model is a Capitalist free economy together with a Welfare State often founded on Socialist principles. In other words, a Mixed Economy.

Your 39% is the proportion of Welfare State and other State provisions of the whole, i.e. the formula for "the Mix". It has nothing to do with Communism, which is an entirely different concept.

Would 61% capatalism be a preferential use of term for you ?

Interesting to note, once you've considered resources and assets pre acquired by the state, that 61% figure will have to come down even more.

More you dig, more you realise, we're not actually that much of capatalist country at all.

Cornucopia

I'm saying that we are a Mixed Economy.

The problem with using terms like Capitalism, is that they have a broad set of meanings. Therefore our economic system is intrinsically Capitalist, in fact the entire World (even China and Soviet-era USSR) is subject to a Capitalist monetary framework.

However, our society is a Mixed Economy with, as I said, elements of Capitalism and Socialism. I consider that to be a fact, BTW, so if you think it to be otherwise, I will be wanting to see some proper analysis and references.

There are economists who believe that a large State means an inherently unhealthy economy. I do not agree with that, however I am in favour of a small State for political reasons.

Jason74

ukcarper wrote: »

Your post are making less sense than usual.

And that's really saying something

TheBlueHorse

having a slight socialist leaning in a capitalist society is good - until the lefty gets too much power. then you get the loony left fringe dictating madness.

a pooled resource for health is good. however, should it be paying for out of work benefit scroungers to have sex changes? probably not. But the lefty will argue it is their right. their Human RIGHTS. This is when you start to run out of money.

I have a friend who works at a hostpital. Had some guy miss numerous appointments. Then when he finally turned up demanded an interpretor. Then refused to be treated by a female etc. Who knows what this guy has cost us all. The lefty will say he was right. He derserves a translator. He deserves a male doctor. NO. This is what costs unecessary money. What should happen is - he makes an appointment, turns up, learns to say what is wrong with him in English - and if he can't - then he (a) gets no further treatment or (b) goes privately and can pay for whatever he likes.

Lefties will be the ruination of the Western world.

antrobus

padington wrote: »

Thats 100% communist. I'm talking about the here and now, 39% communist, remember.

In the here and now, every country in the world is 0% communist.

antrobus

Cornucopia wrote: »

...However, our society is a Mixed Economy with, as I said, elements of Capitalism and Socialism. I consider that to be a fact, BTW, so if you think it to be otherwise, I will be wanting to see some proper analysis and references.....

Err. Shouldn't you therefore be starting off the process, by providing some "proper analysis and references" for your "fact".

padington

antrobus wrote: »

In the here and now, every country in the world is 0% communist.

... And in the same breath no country is 100% capitalist. X