Drinking with a meal at age 16

unholyangel

Kathymel wrote: »

Actually, I said they had served my son, not that they had refused. I also said he had ID.

Anyway, you are missing the point that, in these circumstances, a 16 yo child is within the age restrictions. Therefore, any refusal to serve comes down to personal opinion. You can't justify discrimination based on personal opinion.

I asked if he had suitable ID, not if he had ID. When I worked in the club we wouldnt accept anything other than a driving license or passport - because those were holographic and harder to forge.

Did they - or did they not - initially refuse to serve your son?

I'm not missing the point, you are.

The ban on age discrimination (in relation to goods and services) started on 1st october 2012 - however this ban does not apply to under 18's. The cafe could quite legitimately refuse to even allow under 18's on their premises - never mind to serve them alcohol.

Hermione_Granger

Kathymel wrote: »

Therefore, any refusal to serve comes down to personal opinion. You can't justify discrimination based on personal opinion.

Why not? There are numerous examples of businesses in the UK who select their customers based on age.


Many nightclubs only allow people over 21 to enter, there are plenty of insurance companies who won't provide cover for people below a certain age even though those people might be of a legal age to drive and SAGA holidays won't allow anyone under 50 to make a booking.


Are all of the examples above illegal? and if so, why haven't the companies been prosecuted?

Jimx26

Kathymel wrote: »

I understand a proprietor has the right to refuse to serve people, but I believe they must provide a legitimate reason if they are not to be accused of discrimination.

Incorrect, they do not have to provide a reason.

themull1

Why would you encourage him to drink alcohol at 16?

hawk30

S29 Equality Act 2010 prohibits discrimination in respect of the provision of a service. But s28(1) says this does not apply to the protected characteristics of age where the person is under the age of 18. So it's not discrimination. Even if it applied to his age, the pub could possibly justify direct age discrimination as being a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

beeg0d

themull1 wrote: »

Why would you encourage him to drink alcohol at 16?

imho teaching Children to respect alcohol and enjoy it responsibly is far better then the no alcohol till your 18 then binge away approach. Banning something compleatly makes people (especally childeren) want it more. Then again that is all a compleatly different debate

visidigi

arcon5 wrote: »

I was once told by a pub manager (she was my OHs boss at the time) that their license has special conditions attached, it restricts the sale of alcohol to ANYBODY under the age of 18. So although the law may permit it, the local authority have restricted it further by placing extra conditions.

How true it is I don't know.

But I don't think you would get far with a discrimination case in this instance.

Could it be that pub didn't have a food service to allow the serving of 16yo's?

Nessun_Dorma

Kathymel wrote: »

I've been idly pondering this subject since the proprietor of a local cafe almost refused to serve my 16 yo son a glass of cider whilst he was eating a sit-down meal with both his parents.

We knew we were within the law and the woman was eventually persuaded to allow him to have a drink, although she specified how much he would be allowed (the law does not specify).

I understand a proprietor has the right to refuse to serve people, but I believe they must provide a legitimate reason if they are not to be accused of discrimination.

What I am pondering is, if a proprietor refuses to serve someone on the grounds that they are 16, despite that person fulfilling all necessary criteria to make the consumption legal, are they guilty of age discrimination?

Sorry, but this is nonsense. Sixteen year olds have no protected status. If the owner of any establishment decide they will not serve alcohol to anyone under the age of eighteen, regardless of their colour, gender, sexuality, race, religion or ethnicity, that is entirely up to them. There is no law that can stop them.

Nessun_Dorma

wealdroam wrote: »

You are right... the seller can refuse to sell anything to anyone. This is particularly true of alcoholic beverages.

They certainly do not have to explain any 'legitimate reason' to the prospective customer... that explanation will only be needed if the matter went to court.

And unless there was an allegation that the reason it was being refused was on the list of protected characteristics, they still wouldn't have to give an explanation.

Nessun_Dorma

Kathymel wrote: »

Regardless of whether it would be a petty complaint or not, I am interested in the legal position.

If a publican were to say to a customer, 'The law says black people may drink in my bar, but I disagree, so I'm not going to serve you.', the case would be cut and dried.

How might this be different? The cafe owner stated that, regardless of his rights within the law, she didn't want to serve him. That smacks of discrimination to me.

On what grounds?