New Car Tax Rules..... Scam?

Cornucopia

tony6403 wrote: »

... TV licences...

No - not that one. In fact the TV Licence is worse than Road Tax/VED, because it is only refunded in whole quarters.

tony6403

Cornucopia wrote: »

No - not that one. In fact the TV Licence is worse than Road Tax/VED, because it is only refunded in whole quarters.

never heard of anyone getting a refund from TV , didn't know that you could !

Tilt

There is another benefit of the new scheme. It's made it easier for the hardened, non-car tax payer to get away with paying.

The DVLA would have us believe that they will police this by ANPR technology so the paper disc has become obsolete. But hang on, don't they need cameras on at least all main routes across the country?

Well it maybe the case that such cameras exist on motorways, but in rural places I doubt that there are any.

arcon5

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

Wondered how long it'd be before political loyalties appeared. After all, the last government left our national finances in such a perfect state, didn't they!

In fairness there has been a lot of good done over the last 30 years to this country. But probably a wired topic best left for another time

AdrianC

Tilt wrote: »

There is another benefit of the new scheme. It's made it easier for the hardened, non-car tax payer to get away with paying.

How on earth do you figure that one?

The DVLA would have us believe that they will police this by ANPR technology so the paper disc has become obsolete. But hang on, don't they need cameras on at least all main routes across the country?

They're there.

Well it maybe the case that such cameras exist on motorways, but in rural places I doubt that there are any.

Main routes? Yes.

But, of course, they can't do anything against the "hardened non-car tax payer" who doesn't bother to use the right name and address on the V5C. Never have, never will do anything about them - and a small round piece of paper doesn't make any difference, either. Which is why DVLA have spent the last decade or so using mobile ANPR vans around industrial estates, housing estates etc, and clamping cars that are untaxed. A small, round easily forged piece of paper hasn't ever been involved in that process, either.

motorguy

arcon5 wrote: »

At least by incorporating it in to the cost then they are raising the money in an honest way and not using a cunning technique that sees them targeting people buying or selling cars.

And then the rest of us end up paying extra to cover people who change their cars often and / or drive big engined cars?

No, i dont think so.

Its a very minor amount for most people, and probably represents 0.01% of the price of changing a car when you factor in depreciation, insurance changes, etc.

motorguy

Joe_Horner wrote: »

As for the "they'd only have to raise it elsewhere" argument - that might have some validity if there was a commensurate reduction in other taxes (apart from those for the really rather rich).

In real terms, they have. The tax prices didnt go up generally, so if they'd implemented another route they would have.

Its a cake - and its theirs to chose how to cut it. All amounts to the same amount of tax revenue.

Joe_Horner wrote: »

But, even with that, it's an entirely regressive tax because it affects those least able to pay (who tend to drive older cars in higher tax groups because that's what they can afford but they may well need the transport) far more than it does those who can afford it because they can also afford the latest zero emission cars (as Motorguy blithely suggests) if they don't want to.

In some instances yes, however the simple answer is if you cant get a cheap to tax car is to change it at the end of the month. Simples.

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Frankly "just get a zero or low tax car" is a little insulting to the many people round here who work full time on NMW (often for big companies who're coining it in on the back of their labour), need cars because public transport is non-existent and all the jobs and even shops (unless you want to buy tourist windmills for the beach) are 20+ miles away, and can just about scrub together £500 for the next old banger when this one goes tits-up.

At lot of things in life are a little insulting. Paying probably £5 or so "extra" when you change your car, which is avoidable by changing at the end of a month, doesnt make it into my top 100 things which i find insulting that are happening in the world.

You have little to worry about if this is your biggest problem.

motorguy

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Very easily as it happens.

All they would need to do is have the car remain taxed for the (non-refunded) remaining part of the month. Since there are now no disks involved (the whole point of the exercise) that would be very easy indeed:

(1) You sell a car on, say, 10th of April.

(2) The tax is already paid for April but you won't get that refunded.

(3) So that remaining 20 days stays in force and the new owner has to tax it from the 1st May.

Problem solved.

As for the "they'd only have to raise it elsewhere" argument - that might have some validity if there was a commensurate reduction in other taxes (apart from those for the really rather rich).

But, even with that, it's an entirely regressive tax because it affects those least able to pay (who tend to drive older cars in higher tax groups because that's what they can afford but they may well need the transport) far more than it does those who can afford it because they can also afford the latest zero emission cars (as Motorguy blithely suggests) if they don't want to.

Frankly "just get a zero or low tax car" is a little insulting to the many people round here who work full time on NMW (often for big companies who're coining it in on the back of their labour), need cars because public transport is non-existent and all the jobs and even shops (unless you want to buy tourist windmills for the beach) are 20+ miles away, and can just about scrub together £500 for the next old banger when this one goes tits-up.

These are honest, very hard working, people doing their best to not be a drain on society but society seems to discount the fact that they even exist when doing this sort of thing.

Surely the big benefit you should be seeing for those on NMW is that you can now pay it monthly AND theres only a 5% surcharge compared to 10% previously for not paying for a full year?

Or are you a glass is half empty kind of guy who just likes to complain?

Cornucopia

tony6403 wrote: »

never heard of anyone getting a refund from TV , didn't know that you could !

Yes, you can get a refund for a wide range of reasons, based on no longer needing the licence you had been paying for.

Mostly this is either when someone dispenses with TV broadcasts, or when households merge.

Tilt

AdrianC wrote: »

How on earth do you figure that one?

You've answered your own question with you final comment. To expand on that, even the police quietly think abolishing the "failure to display" offence (tax disc) was a poor decision. Most traffic cops will tell you that the tax disc was a perfect visual aid for them to decide whether to pull a car over. It normally was an indication to other legal issues if a car was displaying an out of date tax disc. And before you mention ANPR, not many officers on foot have this available to them and in any case, why would traffic police pull over a car which was showing no tax? That in itself isn't a police matter but failing to display was.

AdrianC wrote: »

They're there.

Not on every route they're not. And there are none at all on the Isle of Wight.

AdrianC wrote: »

But, of course, they can't do anything against the "hardened non-car tax payer" who doesn't bother to use the right name and address on the V5C. Never have, never will do anything about them - and a small round piece of paper doesn't make any difference, either. Which is why DVLA have spent the last decade or so using mobile ANPR vans around industrial estates, housing estates etc, and clamping cars that are untaxed. A small, round easily forged piece of paper hasn't ever been involved in that process, either.

Really? Well let me educate you. I for one would report a vehicle that i saw with an out of date tax disc (by in excess of a month) via the report it in line facility. I believe that there are quite a few disgruntled members of the tax-paying motoring public who used to do the same. But those "eyes" have no been closed as the untaxed cars now blend in with the taxed ones.