Landlord selling up

smeef

I don't know if anyone can actually give any advice on this, but it'll give me a chance to vent at least.

We moved into a rental property nearly six months ago, after our last landlord decided to sell. We signed a six month contract and were planning to renew the tenancy when the first contract ended. A month and a half ago, we had a letter asking if we wished to renew the tenancy. I spoke to someone at the letting agency and said we'd like a 12 month contract, which she said they'd sort the paperwork for. Then she went off on maternity leave.

Yesterday, hubby gets a phone message at 16.50 saying that they need to know urgently if we want to renew the tenancy agreement, and the rent's going up. As they were closed within ten minutes of that message, hubby phoned back first thing this morning, said we wanted to renew the agreement and were happy to pay the higher rent. A couple of hours later, letting agent left another message on hubby's phone saying the landlord's changed their mind and wants to sell. They are waiting for confirmation in writing before they can tell us any more.

We are now 2-3 weeks away from the end of the tenancy agreement. Can they turf us out in that time despite saying only yesterday they wanted to renew the tenancy agreement? And where do we stand on the fact that if we get another property throgh the same letting agent we'll have to pay the same hefty fees we paid them only 6 months ago? And how quickly can we expect to get our deposit back? So many questions!!

Lavendyr

They always have to give you 2 months notice as far as I understand it, so unless you were served notice 2 months ago, you should be able to stay in the property for another 2 months minimum from the date you receive any notice.

Is your deposit protected by a tenancy deposit scheme? If so it should take no more than 14 days to get your deposit back. If not it may take longer but check your agreement to see if there is anything about this.

If you get another property through the same letting agent I expect you will have to pay their administration/reservation fees again. Perhaps you could use another agent who charges less?

HTH

Guy_Montag

Can they turf you out? Check your contract, if there is a document in it, titled something like "Section 21 Notice to quit" then probably yes.

You could ask the agency if they will find you somewhere new, without charging you the same hefty fees, but they probably will want to anyway.

You should expect your deposit back in two weeks, that's not to say you'll get it back then.

smeef

Thanks, I had a feeling I was up wotsit creek without a paddle.

Unfortunately, there was a Section 21 notice in the initial paperwork - I wasn't aware of the implications at the time we signed up. Naive to say the least! I'm just hoping the landlord takes the view of the last guy who sold up - that we have until he sells the house to move out, which should hopefully buy us some time.

The agency have confirmed that they will indeed be charging us the same amounts that were charged when we moved into this property, so it won't do us any good to be sticking with them - apart from the fact they won't need references or a credit check which would speed things up.

Oh well, back to property hunting.....

Guy_Montag

smeef wrote: »

Thanks, I had a feeling I was up wotsit creek without a paddle.

Unfortunately, there was a Section 21 notice in the initial paperwork - I wasn't aware of the implications at the time we signed up. Naive to say the least! I'm just hoping the landlord takes the view of the last guy who sold up - that we have until he sells the house to move out, which should hopefully buy us some time.

The agency have confirmed that they will indeed be charging us the same amounts that were charged when we moved into this property, so it won't do us any good to be sticking with them - apart from the fact they won't need references or a credit check which would speed things up.

Oh well, back to property hunting.....

Yeah, I didn't realise the implication of S21s until I started hanging about these boards. If it's actually attached to the agreement, then it's possible it may not be valid. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain why.

Lavendyr

*has learned from these boards about S21s too*

An S21 must be served after the commencement of the tenancy. It cannot be served before the tenancy begins, which means it cannot be served within or attached to the tenancy agreement, it must be sent afterwards. So if yours was served with the tenancy agreement, you may be able to argue that it is invalid.

If it's the agency's policy to serve S21s at the start of a tenancy I wouldn't stick with them anyway.

Turnbull2000

Rental laws are an utter sham in this country. The S21 loophole should have been closed years ago.

Smeef, an S21 notice must be absoloute. If the agency issued the S21 as standard and has since offered (and backtracked) on a tennency extension, then I believe you have the right to two months notice as the S21 has been invalidated.

I urge you post post this query on landlordzone or singing pig ASAP.

clutton_2

what the poster needs to know is that even if a section 21 has been issued, or will be issued, they need not move out then. the landlord/agent will need to go to court order to get them out. even when the judge orders them out , they still do not actually have to go until the landlord goes back to court again and gets a bailiffs warrant to evict them and their goods and chattels onto the pavement. all this takes time, several months, so, dont get tooo panicky. but i would start looking anyway.

franklee

smeef wrote: »

Unfortunately, there was a Section 21 notice in the initial paperwork - I wasn't aware of the implications at the time we signed up. Naive to say the least!

This serving the S21 in advance even when the landlord doesn't at that time plan the tenant to leave is called the Sword of Damocles and is something all tenants should keep an eye out for.

Lavendyr wrote: »

An S21 must be served after the commencement of the tenancy. It cannot be served before the tenancy begins, which means it cannot be served within or attached to the tenancy agreement, it must be sent afterwards.

Right but it doesn't have to sent afterwards, it could be handed over in person after the tenancy agreement has been signed and the keys handed over. (And since April some of the tenancy deposit stuff has to be handed over first too).

Turnbull2000 wrote: »

Smeef, an S21 notice must be absoloute. If the agency issued the S21 as standard and has since offered (and backtracked) on a tenancy extension, then I believe you have the right to two months notice as the S21 has been invalidated.

Technically you are correct but without something in writing the tenant isn't going to be able to prove anything and therefore the S21 will probably be upheld.

smeef, If you still have the letter and it offers you a renewal then you could use this to argue the S21 is invalid and ask for a new two months notice in order to give you time to arrange moving. It's best to conduct these things in writing rather than by phone so you have records to prove what happened, I use email so it's not inconvenient to do. Is it possible to keep both phone messages too? I think you've enough to challenge the S21 if you can keep the evidence and would write to the agent stating the reasons why you think the existing S21 is invalid and stating that you expect a fresh two months notice to be served.

clutton wrote: »

what the poster needs to know is that even if a section 21 has been issued, or will be issued, they need not move out then. the landlord/agent will need to go to court order to get them out. even when the judge orders them out , they still do not actually have to go until the landlord goes back to court again and gets a bailiffs warrant to evict them and their goods and chattels onto the pavement. all this takes time, several months, so, dont get tooo panicky. but i would start looking anyway.

Again technically right but only to be done as a last resort as having that on a tenant's references will stuff up the chance of getting a reputable agent to take them on next time! This is why I'd avoid the SoD, my references are too valuable to be left to chance like that. It's disgusting leaving good tenants open to court action like that and the tenant will have to pay the landlords court fee of 150.

BobProperty

franklee wrote: »

....Right but it doesn't have to sent afterwards, it could be handed over in person after the tenancy agreement has been signed and the keys handed over.....

...and the tenancy had started.
I don't think an S21 would hold up if the tenancy agreement and S21 were signed in advance of the tenancy actually commencing.

smeef

Thanks to everyone for all the advice, its definitely help us stop panicking and think about where we stand. I guess we just have to wait until we hear from the landlord when they want us out - here's hoping they're reasonable about it.

If they're not reasonable, then we will be letting them know that we plan to move as soon as we find somewhere (we had two viewings booked within 12 hours of them notifying us that they wanted to sell), that two weeks is not enough time to move out, and that we believe the original S21 to be invalid as we have a letter asking if we would like to extend the tenancy agreement and a voicemail message asking us again if we would like to extend the agreement and notifying us that the rent would be going up.

Fingers crossed it won't get as far as court!