If a cheque is not honoured for whatever reason it's clear case of fraud

JethroUK

If a cheque is not honoured for whatever reason it's clear case of fraud

It's the same as passing forged bank notes and you persue it the same way

And it's for this same reason you are not allowed to cancel cheques for any other reason than if it becomes lost or stolen (once it has been used as a "promise to pay" it has to be paid)

My Dad used to own a shop for 30+ years and handled literally 100s bounced cheque and the cases were so clear cut his solicitor charged him a fixed fee of just £19 for a letter to pay up face fraud charges in court

All but one paid up and that person did end up in court, lost the case in under 5 minutes facing full payment and additional court cost of £60

Few years back now so you can maybe even had a 0 on to those

System

JethroUK wrote: »

If a cheque is not honoured for whatever reason it's clear case of fraud

No it's not. There are other reasons for a cheque to bounce apart from lack of funds. such as unsigned, amount in words and figures disagree, wrong date - outside the date period that a bank is willing to accept a cheque

pvt

I haven't written a cheque in the last 18 months - when I did it was to open a 'postal only' ISA.

My understanding was that it is fraudulent to give someone a cheque that you know will not be paid when presented, or that you intend to stop before it is presented.

It believe it is OK to, for example, stop a cheque if something subsequently comes to light such as finding the goods you bought turning out to be stolen, or if the recipient claims they have lost the cheque and request a replacement. From the OP's definition then, even if the "lost" cheque is presented and bounces, fraud has been committed by the payer - which is clearly nonsense.

peachyprice

No it's not, unless the cheque was written with the knowledge that it would not be honoured.

Example:

I write a cheque, in the time between it being presented my account is emptied due to fraud. I have not committed fraud by writing the cheque.

It's not as clear cut as you say.

arcon5

Ops confusing civil and criminal law. There are very few reasons for a cancelled cheque. Goods not as described etc are not defences for it. But not all cheques cancelled or not honoured is fraud.

Irrespective of the law, it's time consuming and costs money pursuing it and still a risk it won't be paid even after obtaining a court order, so business' don't like ore them or won't part with goods until it's cleared usually

pvt

Arcon raises a good point regarding Civil and Criminal law.

If you write a cheque with the intention of it never being paid, either because you intend to stop it or because you know the bank will not honour it, then you have committed fraud, a criminal offence under the Theft Act.

But if the cheque is originally written with the intention it would be paid, but subsequently isn't honoured, then the monies are still due to the payee, in full, but pursuing it would now be a civil matter.

cookie365

Everything that appears on the internet in a huge bold font in a centred paragraph is always true, even when it isn't.

agrinnall

Well then Jethro, we are eagerly awaiting your return to refute all of the comments posted so far demonstrating how it's not automatically fraud. As I'm sure you'll fail to be able to refute them then a grovelling apology for wasting our time and a promise to think before posting in future would be a good alternative. Sadly, I'm not expecting any of this to happen.

JethroUK

pvt wrote: »

...My understanding was that it is fraudulent to give someone a cheque that you know will not be paid when presented, or that you intend to stop before it is presented.......

It is fraudulent to promise to pay (cheq and money borh make that promise), then not pay

End of!

arcon5 wrote: »

..... There are very few reasons for a cancelled cheque. Goods not as described etc are not defences for it. But not all cheques cancelled or not honoured is fraud.

It is fraudulent to promise to pay (cheq and money both make that promise), then not pay

If the money turns out to be forged/fake or if the cheque is not honoured that's fraud

JethroUK

pvt wrote: »

....If you write a cheque with the intention of it never being paid, either because you intend to stop it or because you know the bank will not honour it, then you have committed fraud, a criminal offence under the Theft Act.

.......

Precisely!!!!

But it doesn't matter WHEN your intention to defraud occurs

It's the fact that you DO defraud

Obviously

No ifs no buts

Hence it is a simple case to prosecute ergo solicitor s will persue it for peanuts

and this legal theory has not diminished in allllllll these years

JethroUK

agrinnall wrote: »

Well then Jethro......

To avoid reading anymore of my insane driveli suggest you ignore me in future and I'll return the favour

You are now being ignored