POFA 2012 Para 8 (2(a)) period of parking

Fergie76

Fruitcake wrote: »

You are correct. The signage is non-compliant and is one of several valid appeal winning points.

Non-compliant in what respect, POFA or BPA AOS COP?

nigelbb

Fergie76 wrote: »

Non-compliant in what respect, POFA or BPA AOS COP?

POFA has nothing to say with regard to signage. Non-compliance can only be with regard to the AOS CoP of the BPA Ltd.

Stealthnet2004

good morning ladies and gents

I have now recieved my rejection letter though for my first stage appeal, with UKPC and have been given a popla code...

In line with the newbies thread and following from the April 2015 update on said thread ( which I am assuming is because of the beavis v parking eye judgement at the court of appeal) I am now replying to this thread for advice on where to go next with my appeal.

I would like to papeal to popla and have looked at the newbie thread already on how to do this (incase anyone asks) but due to the above judgement and update of advice am wondering which would be the best angle to approch this now.. the main facts I see at the moment are that because UKPC are saying if I apply to popla the charge will go up to 100 pound thats now surely not a GPEOL and therefore would be a fact in my favour? also as I mentioned earlier in this thread there was no signs on entrance to the car park (only little a3 size ones half way up walls) and by the time I got back to my car the ticket was there. Looking at the pictures on uk pc's website in conjunction with the windscreen ticket the time frame beetween the care being seen and the ticket being issued is 12:49 - 12:50 then when reffering to the pictures on ukpc's website they are time stampped at 12:52 being the latest one... thats a three minute timespan!!.. surely that breaks BPA rules as mentioned earlier?

sooo.. where do I go next? Any advice on contstructing a POPLA winnable arguement would be much appreicated..

kind regards, Michael

HO87

Use one of the templates in the Newbies thread and adapt it to suit.

One of the points you will need to emphasise - though do not rely on it as your only point (never a good idea) - is that you could only have accepted their contractual offer before you parked not afterwards. If UKPC are to argue (as they almost certainly will) that by parking you are deemed to have accepted their offer then you must have known or had the opportunity to know of it before you parked. No entrance signs - no contract IMO.

Make sure you incorporate the photographs in your appeal.

Others may have a different view.

bod1467

HO87 wrote: »

No entrance signs - no contract IMO.

It's not opinion - it's fact.

No pre-contractual offer to accept (entrance signage) = no contract, period.

enfield_freddy

HO87 wrote: »

#OP You raise an entirely fair point. If the "period of parking" is not specified then a NtK fails to comply and the PPC cannot therefore legally invoke the keeper liability provisions. In theory.

I don't think I have ever seen a NtK that complied with the letter of the law. That coupled with the fact that few PPC's seem able or willing to work within the apparently generous POFA timescales means that for all practical purposes POFA is something of a dead duck. PPC's are increasingly reverting to pre-POFA procedures.

So, four years ago, having gone whining and simpering to government claiming that unless they were granted keeper liability (in exchange for clamping which was to be outlawed) the country's car parks would descend into chaos PPC's were handed Schedule 4. Don't forget, this is something they actively sought out. Mindful that this was counter to established law Parliament built in a number of safeguards and conditions the PPC must fulfil to be able to use keeper liability. It was no surprise that there wasn't a single dissenting voice from the PPC side. Their gravy train had been secured. Or so they thought.

However, then came along those pesky forums and POPLA - who was supposed to be on their side weren't they? Suddenly, they were being obliged to toe the line; to play to the rules they had agreed to - indeed asked for. So rather than sharpen up their act they simply put POFA aside and decided they would play to the old rules - where there weren't actually any rules at all.

If ever you were to seek out evidence of the real nature and intentions of PPC's then this is it. IMO.

HO87 , you have hit it on the nail


the BPA know exactly what is happening and how they are skipping POFA2012.


I received a email this morning regarding a case


"
Dear Mr. xxxxx

Thank you for your email.
As previously advised, xxxxxx issues Parking Charge Notices up to 28 days from the issue date.
If a parking charge is neither paid nor appealed to xxxxxvia http://www.parkingcsl.co.uk/appeals/form.php on the 29th day the case will be referred to Debt Recovery Plus Ltd also t/as Parking Collection Services (who will issue a Notice to Keeper and accept any appeals at NTK stage). The driver and the keeper should have the opportunity to appeal.
We note this Notice to Keeper advises the motorist (on the reverse) that PCS ‘Parking Collection Services’ is a trading name of Debt Recovery Plus.

so they know clearly that the PPCs , are skipping POFA , and going straight to a DCA to issue a NTK at an inflated price (+ £20) and no discount period .

Ralph-y

the newbies thread does not at the min contain the example POPLA appeals

but .....

they can be found here ....

POPLA appeals http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=62180281&postcount=15

Ralph:cool:

Stealthnet2004

Thank you for your replies, I shall be submitting the photos as part of my evidence.

With regards to No GPEOL, is it still advisable to include this as one of the points on appeal? Because of the COA Beavis v Pe case and until the supreme court, decision should I now leave this point out of my appeal? From what I can tell by reading the various Popla appeals and advise on here that until recently No GPEOL was one of the main winning points on Popla appeals ? ( I cant see any wins on the Popla thread on GPEOL that are post April) does anyone know of anyone winning at Popla on GPEOL post April 15?


With regards to the signage will it help my case if I complain to the BPA about this car park?

As always replies are much appreicated

Stealthnet2004

Oh and apologies for the bump post but in addiditon to the above questions, does anyone know if adding GPEOL would mean that POPLA may delay the adjudication, due to the beavis case? I am starting to think along the lines of not adding GPEOL at all to my appeal?

anyone with any recent (post mid april) Popla experiance, I would espeshially wlecome your replies here.

henrik777

It's advisable to include all points that may win. It is also unknown how popla will apply Beavis (as it stands) until people use the arguments, popla rule and people make their rulings known.