How to tell if a flat is council or ex-council?

Haideez

My girlfriend moved into what she thought was an ex-council flat in January under what in hindsight are pretty dodgy circumstances. The man who lived there seemed quite friendly - he said he wasn't the owner but was friends with them and passed the rent on each month. There was no tenancy agreement and they agreed on a token amount for deposit (£200). She never received a confirmation from the Deposit Protection Service that her deposit had been registered.

Now she has been told by her flatmate that the owner wants the flat back and that she has to leave. It has been a tense time living there as the flatmate has walked all over her in many regards and she is upset that she is being turfed out after such a short time. Now they are in dispute over a leaving date and it's all gotten quite nasty. Her flatmate has threatened to evict her which raises the question how can he do this if he is not the owner? All along he said he wasn't the owner but now he's pressed he says he in fact is the joint owner.

This made me suspicious and I looked up the Property Title on the government Land Registry website. It says the flat is owned by 'THE MAYOR AND BURGESSES OF THE LONDON BOROUGH OF CAMDEN of Town Hall, Judd Street, London WC1H 9LP.' Can I safely assume that this means it is a council flat and that he is illegally subletting this room? He is charging her £620 pcm which isn't exorbitant if it is a privately owned ex-council flat in the London Borough of Camden but if he is paying council rates for it and making a massive profit that is outrageous. If it is indeed a council flat how can I report him for this?

Either way without tenancy agreement can he insist on a particular notice period when one was never outlined initially?

Rambosmum

Someone better informed will be along shortly BUT the fact that your girlfriend is paying money each month means she does have a tenancy agreement, whether it is written down or not.

Unfortunately if she is living with the owner then she is lodger, not a tenant and so has fewer rights.

If the person she is living with is the tenant of the council or ALMO then she may have more rights.

My advice would be to contact the council concerned or their ALMO - the housing department will tell you who you need to contact and they will be able to advise her whether it is still council/ RSL owned.

Camden's housing options number is 020 7974 4444.

lincroft1710

Your girlfriend would appear to be a lodger and has very few rights compared to a tenant. Her flatmate is not breaking any rules of his tenancy with the council by having a lodger, because he is not their tenant. If her flatmate is a sub-tenant, then the tenant of the flat (the guy the flatmate pays rent to) is probably breaking the rules of his tenancy by subletting council owned property.

[Deleted User]

This may depend on the council. I know my council does allow subletting as long as you have a secure tenancy (as opposed to a probationary tenancy).

However if the 'owner' is claiming LHA as well as renting out, then he/she could be in big trouble.

antrobus

Haideez wrote: »

... If it is indeed a council flat how can I report him for this? ....

Or try ...
https://www.camden.gov.uk/ccm/content/housing/general-housing-information/unlawful-occupancy/

... and complete the online form.

[Deleted User]

Looking at camden's tenants booklet it says that the whole of the home cannot be sublet, and part of the tenancy can only be sublet with permission from the council. It also says that the tenant can not rent or buy another property while a tenant of a council property if its reasonable for the tenant to live in the council property. You can view the pdf online by googling camden tenancy agreements page 14 & 15.

Hmm confusingly on the next page, the agreement does say that a tenant can have a lodger, no mention of permission. But I'd assume for a lodger to be a lodger, the actual tenant has to be living there. Sounds like the tenant may have left the premises.

dacouch

A quick way is to see if any of the neigbooring flats have sofas or mattresses on the balconies

Haideez

Very apt response from 'dacouch'! :rotfl: Are all your posts lounge related?

Seriously though thank you all for your replies, it seems it's not initially obvious how legitimate my girlfriend's situation is. So I gave Camden Council a call and spoke to somebody in their housing department. They said it was indeed a council property, and the tenant(s) certainly weren't supposed to be subletting. The main tenant listed was a female (who I can tell you certainly doesn't live there at the moment), and if they hadn't informed their estate officer of the sublet then they could get in trouble.

In addition I told her how much my girlfriend was paying (£620pcm) and the lady told me that she has been covering the majority of the rent for the whole flat. Her advice was not to pay anything more and if they argue tell them that we have been in touch with the council and they aren't supposed to be doing this.
Curious now to see whether when presented with this information my girlfriend will be able to get her deposit back from her dodgy flatmate.

[Deleted User]

Hi,

I think your girlfriend should be looking for somewhere else, could turn into a tricky situation.

[Deleted User]

Glad you phoned them. Looks like the council might be able to get the property back.

Watched http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05nv2zw/rooms-rogues-and-renters

I hope your gf is able to find alternative accommodation. Agree that she should stop paying rent but as a lodger, she could find herself locked out of the property with little or no notice. But this could happen anyway now the illegal tenancy has been reported. She could try taking whoever she paid the deposit to to small claims, but this might be difficult even with proof that the deposit has been paid (I would imagine the person she is living with is going to be skipping off soon). I am sorry I can't be more helpful.

She could rent a 1 bed flat for the same rent she's paying for a room in London in Gravesend.., 16mins by BR into Kings Cross St Pancras.., sure there are other options too. Its why people like me can't afford to rent here anymore lol.., the ex Londoners are moving in.

Haideez

Thanks for the link to the show, will definitely have to watch sometime!

Yes the situation now is tricky because my girlfriend wants to move out on the 9th but is complicated by the fact her disabled mother is currently visiting from overseas and staying with her (until the 9th when she flies home). If it was just my girlfriend I would say to her come and stay at mine but I don't have space for her mother as well. The £200 deposit she paid would theoretically cover her rent until the 9th so I think she should just not pay anymore to this guy and forget about getting the deposit back, but the problem is her dodgy flatmate who rented her the room in the first place is now being creepy and menacing, saying he's going to get friends around to move her stuff out when she's at work etc. Not a great situation to be in but definitely a lesson in why to always get everything officialised and in writing at the beginning! I'm going to call the council again today and see about officially reporting him as he's not the landlord he's just a tenant and I want him to face the music for all the crap he's put her through.