Where will the cuts fall

CLAPTON

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn wrote: »

In reality, our net pay is lower than it was last year. Certainly doesn't feel like a "colossal" pay rise.
Pension example for EO Executive officer.

Ben is 26 and currently a member of the Nuvos section. He works full-time and he earns £23,500 and he predicts he will want to retire at 67. His estimated future pension if he stayed in Nuvos will be £18, 245. In Alpha (all civil servants are being moved onto this scheme) his future pension will be £16,207, a reduction of £2,040.

so Ben will receive over 77 % of his gross salary as a pension (more in take home percentage):
that's an undreamed of percentage of an employee earning the same in the private sector.
Ben could oft out of the state scheme and choose to save about 730,000 to fund a private pension of the same amount.

BobQ

Mr Duncan Smith told the Andrew Marr Show "none of the stuff" that had been reported had been discussed with the chancellor, and it was standard for government departments to put figures together - but that did not mean they were policy.

It also does not mean that it will not happen or become party policy after the GE. I happened with VAT after all.

BobQ

CLAPTON wrote: »

so Ben will receive over 77 % of his gross salary as a pension (more in take home percentage):
that's an undreamed of percentage of an employee earning the same in the private sector.
Ben could oft out of the state scheme and choose to save about 730,000 to fund a private pension of the same amount.

16207/23500 is 69%

HL guideline tables suggest that getting 16000 would equate to a fund of 400,000.

Where did you get your figure from?

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

16207/23500 is 69%

HL guideline tables suggest that getting 16000 would equate to a fund of 400,000.

Where did you get your figure from?

are you simply nit picking or addressing the points of substance?

do you really and truely think the average private sector person gets a pension of either 69% or 77%?

if Ben ofted out of the public sector pension is he likely to save 400,000 over his working life? really, seriously

get real and consider that matters of substance: it's a fantastic deal.

Loughton_Monkey

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn wrote: »

Ben is 26 and currently a member of the Nuvos section. He works full-time and he earns £23,500 and he predicts he will want to retire at 67. His estimated future pension if he stayed in Nuvos will be £18, 245. In Alpha (all civil servants are being moved onto this scheme) his future pension will be £16,207, a reduction of £2,040.

All that tells is (as we already know) the Civil Service pension scheme was very lucrative, and has been scaled back somewhat. It met with wide scale public support.

Not least because only those with large private company schemes had an equivalent pension, while most had either none, or a far more modest money purchase scheme.

The private schemes were stopped, curtailed, or heavily tranformed long before the Civil Service got round to it. In all cases, prior entitlements stand. But the reductions in projected pension within the private sector would almost certainly show significantly more than the £2K or so that you quote.

It's tough, I know. But what value would you put on the much enhanced 'job security' that the CS offers?

chewmylegoff

CLAPTON wrote: »

so Ben will receive over 77 % of his gross salary as a pension (more in take home percentage):
that's an undreamed of percentage of an employee earning the same in the private sector.
Ben could oft out of the state scheme and choose to save about 730,000 to fund a private pension of the same amount.

Ben will also accrue the right to receive a £7.5k state pension by virtue of having a notional NI charge deducted from his public sector salary. So when he retires at 67 he will continue to earn the same as when he was working. Seems sustainable.

BobQ

CLAPTON wrote: »

are you simply nit picking or addressing the points of substance?

do you really and truely think the average private sector person gets a pension of either 69% or 77%?

if Ben ofted out of the public sector pension is he likely to save 400,000 over his working life? really, seriously

get real and consider that matters of substance: it's a fantastic deal.

The point of substance is that exaggeration is unnecessary, so why do it?

I agree it is a good pension. I really am fed up with people whining about the public sector schemes. If the solution is to abolish public sector pensions, then the Government should get on with it. It is not the fault of the Bens of this world that Governments offer generous pensions largely to address poor salaries.

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn

BobQ wrote: »

The point of substance is that exaggeration is unnecessary, so why do it?

I agree it is a good pension. I really am fed up with people whining about the public sector schemes. If the solution is to abolish public sector pensions, then the Government should get on with it. It is not the fault of the Bens of this world that Governments offer generous pensions largely to address poor salaries.

Exactly, in the private sector I would be rewarded for achievements and ability, sadly being a civil servant means you are banded and no matter how good you are at a job you will always remain in that band unless you are able to get promoted, which is easier said than done considering that there are no new jobs being created. In the private sector I could be earning between£30-£40k. So the pension is really the jobs saving grace.

Generali

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn wrote: »

Exactly, in the private sector I would be rewarded for achievements and ability, sadly being a civil servant means you are banded and no matter how good you are at a job you will always remain in that band unless you are able to get promoted, which is easier said than done considering that there are no new jobs being created. In the private sector I could be earning between£30-£40k. So the pension is really the jobs saving grace.

In the private sector you don't get endless pay rises without being promoted either. If you are an admin clerk you're going to get sub-£20k regardless of how excellent you are.

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

The point of substance is that exaggeration is unnecessary, so why do it?

I agree it is a good pension. I really am fed up with people whining about the public sector schemes. If the solution is to abolish public sector pensions, then the Government should get on with it. It is not the fault of the Bens of this world that Governments offer generous pensions largely to address poor salaries.

In fact I under-estimated the pension Ben would get as I didn't include his state pension with his public sector pension.
The issue here was the poster (not Ben) was indeed 'whining' about the low level of the pension when it is clearly a fantastically good one.

Neither you nor I know what Ben's job is nor do we know what he could earn in the private sector, so please don't exaggeration his situation.