Where will the cuts fall

Loughton_Monkey

Kittycat1981 wrote: »

......I see on a daily basis the how the cuts are savaging families, childhood poverty IS on the increase, children not having a hot meal unless its at school, parents using food banks (and working parents too!) families becoming homeless, children not having a bed to sleep in, or sharing a bed with 2 others. Families huddled together in one room under a quilt because they cannot afford to put the heating on- they've used the last bit of cash to buy food.........

You paint a picture like that of the 1950's, when there was such poverty around.

You only have to see the amount of 'benefits' most of these families receive in HB and other cash. If you are as lowly paid as you imply, then most of these people are trousering a lot more than you after tax. What sort of neglect is it that their children never get a hot meal at home? The food money went on tobacco, the heating money went on bingo, scratchcards and the lottery. The rent money went over the bar down the pub, which was why they have to pay half of next week's money paying off Wonga.

I can guarantee that if you got into the habit of throwing £50 cash on the table every week, it would not go on hot food for the kids. Not a penny of it would go on heating.

Thrugelmir

Kittycat1981 wrote: »

Teachers, nurses, police service, social workers, housing officers, fire service, domestic violence services, youth services just to name a few front line public sector staff, who see every day what many people fail to see.

Who pays for these public servants. I'm never heard their Unions suggest that wages be cut to fund the welfare for the poorest in society. Or accept pension changes without an uproar. Cake and eat it springs to mind. Society as a whole has to change it's mindset.

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

You have to look at the overall packages that are on offer.

Would you like 31 days a year holiday plus 26 flexidays plus 8 statutory holiday days while only working 37.5 hours a week basic ?

Why are flexible working days an issue? As I understand flexible working to get 26 flexidays a year you would have to work 10 hour days about 80 days a year. In my experience flexible working is beneficial to an employer as well as the employee. Flexible working is not the preserve of the public sector.

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

My late Grandmother spoke of early childhood. As she was born 1897 . There were 15 children in total. They lived in a 2 room tenement in Limehouse. Her father was a docker. So queued every day at the gates in hope of getting some work. No work equalled no pay. When he did a days work he normally spent time in the pub. Came home drunk and inflicted domestic abuse on her mother. When she was 13 her mother told her to pack their bags and they moved to the other side of the river to Woolwich. She never saw her father again. As the family had no income as there was no welfare in those days. Rather than the family be split up and end up in the poor house. She as one of the elders gave up school and went to work in a laundry six days a week.

We live in a different era. There simply is no comparison. Our lives are so cushy.

I too remember hearing such things and they were undoubtedly true. But the issue is not that we live in a different era. Relative poverty in any era has a pernicious effect on that society. The growth of food banks (at a rate even our PM cannot remember) is an indictment on our society.

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn

Thrugelmir wrote: »

You have to look at the overall packages that are on offer.

Would you like 31 days a year holiday plus 26 flexidays plus 8 statutory holiday days while only working 37.5 hours a week basic ?

I've had to work in the DWP for 10yrs to get my 31 days a year.... It's also massively beneficial for my employer to give me flexible hrs, as the flexible hrs package generally works in my employers favour.... If there is a backlog I'll be asked to work longer, if it's quiet I can leave early.... You make flexible hrs sound like we can go home whenever we want, that certainly isn't the case for me or my colleagues.

we now pay more into our pension for longer for less pay, pay increases have been frozen, the union has less power, we are working harder for longer for less pay and with less job security, whilst being told we have it easy we arent efficient and we have gold plated pensions, this might be the case for senior civil servants, but for your everyday Higher executive officer and below this isn't the case. Even if the daily fail tell you otherwise.

Generali

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn wrote: »

I've had to work in the DWP for 10yrs to get my 31 days a year.... It's also massively beneficial for my employer to give me flexible hrs, as the flexible hrs package generally works in my employers favour.... If there is a backlog I'll be asked to work longer, if it's quiet I can leave early.... You make flexible hrs sound like we can go home whenever we want, that certainly isn't the case for me or my colleagues.

we now pay more into our pension for longer for less pay, pay increases have been frozen, the union has less power, we are working harder for longer for less pay and with less job security, whilst being told we have it easy we arent efficient and we have gold plated pensions, this might be the case for senior civil servants, but for your everyday Higher executive officer and below this isn't the case. Even if the daily fail tell you otherwise.

As you get a defined benefit pension, the increases in longevity have meant a colossal pay rise for you. The increased amount that public sector employees have put in is pitiful by comparison.

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn

Generali wrote: »

As you get a defined benefit pension, the increases in longevity have meant a colossal pay rise for you. The increased amount that public sector employees have put in is pitiful by comparison.

In reality, our net pay is lower than it was last year. Certainly doesn't feel like a "colossal" pay rise.
Pension example for EO Executive officer.

Ben is 26 and currently a member of the Nuvos section. He works full-time and he earns £23,500 and he predicts he will want to retire at 67. His estimated future pension if he stayed in Nuvos will be £18, 245. In Alpha (all civil servants are being moved onto this scheme) his future pension will be £16,207, a reduction of £2,040.

fordcapri2000

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

You paint a picture like that of the 1950's, when there was such poverty around.

You only have to see the amount of 'benefits' most of these families receive in HB and other cash. If you are as lowly paid as you imply, then most of these people are trousering a lot more than you after tax. What sort of neglect is it that their children never get a hot meal at home? The food money went on tobacco, the heating money went on bingo, scratchcards and the lottery. The rent money went over the bar down the pub, which was why they have to pay half of next week's money paying off Wonga.

I can guarantee that if you got into the habit of throwing £50 cash on the table every week, it would not go on hot food for the kids. Not a penny of it would go on heating.

And here we have the classic Daily Mail reader, enough said.

cells

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

You paint a picture like that of the 1950's, when there was such poverty around.

You only have to see the amount of 'benefits' most of these families receive in HB and other cash. If you are as lowly paid as you imply, then most of these people are trousering a lot more than you after tax. What sort of neglect is it that their children never get a hot meal at home? The food money went on tobacco, the heating money went on bingo, scratchcards and the lottery. The rent money went over the bar down the pub, which was why they have to pay half of next week's money paying off Wonga.

I can guarantee that if you got into the habit of throwing £50 cash on the table every week, it would not go on hot food for the kids. Not a penny of it would go on heating.

you need to consider that some people just can't help it or change. In the same way true alcoholics find it near impossible to quit drinking some people find it just as difficult to spend their limited money in a good way

cells

Like I've said before if you are a stable individual or family you can get on just fine on state support and I suspect most people would not be too upset that you are on state support.

But if you are an unstable individual or family you often can't manage with what is given not because its not enough but because of your unstable nature. Such people should be given more help in the form of care/suppprt but there is only so much that can be done.