Debate House Prices
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R.Peston blog on inflation flooded with those disenchanted with housing
Comments
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That's more than a lot of people earn. HGV drivers probably fare no better wage wise. Trouble is £18k a year is far higher than a lot of people earn in Europe right now.
Maybe so.
But some of the living costs, specfically housing is far lower in some areas of Europe too - especially when you compare like with like (I.e. what you actually get for your money).
I totally get the wage comparison with other countires. But we do need to compare the cost of living too. Otherwise it's pointless.
Goes back to a TV programme on a few weeks ago looking at high rises in India. The indian plasterer was amazed that he could earn 150 times more for a days work in England. However, his sole wage was feeding and housing his family in India. Would a plasterers sole wage feed and house a family with 5 kids and a wife here?
Probably not.
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Graham_Devon wrote: »
Maybe so.
But some of the living costs, specfically housing is far lower in some areas of Europe too - especially when you compare like with like (I.e. what you actually get for your money).
I totally get the wage comparison with other countires. But we do need to compare the cost of living too. Otherwise it's pointless.
Goes back to a TV programme on a few weeks ago looking at high rises in India. The indian plasterer was amazed that he could earn 150 times more for a days work in England. However, his sole wage was feeding and housing his family in India. Would a plasterers sole wage feed and house a family with 5 kids and a wife here?
Probably not.
his house is probably a small shanty jobby
his family probably have very basic cloths and food and no healthcare beyond the reality that they are probably currently young and healthy and don't need much of it
His daughters will be married off when they are 14-20
His sons will start work by age 12
not really a comparison
the BBC had 3 fantastic programs on average jobs and people in india screen a year or two ago. absolutely brilliant would recommend if you can find it
In the UK we have it pretty good,
We do have a housing problem and crap small homes that could and should be better.
We should probably set a minimum wage towards the £10 mark once in work for a year
but overall we are lucky
Germany doesn't have a housing problem like we do, but I suspect the low wages and grumbling for a section of the population exists there too0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »The other puzzle is why productivity is so low / static if we are employing so many more people.
low relative to what?
UK productivity has increased 15% over the last year measured in euros....
anyway, one of the reasons the UK productivity has fallen/not-risen is because of the sharp drop off in oil and gas output.
$30B fall or ~$1k per worker
Likewise house building having fallen from near 200k units a year to 120k units a year has chopped some $40B off GDP or ~$1.3k per worker0 -
The only way to sort the housing problem IMO is end RTB and build lots of council houses...We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0
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Graham_Devon wrote: »Maybe.
But look at it this way...
If you don't bother with all the qualifications, training and the expense of said training, and instead, go work in a shop on £7.00 an hour...
You will actually receive £6,780 in tax credits, £110 council tax credit, an £4,000 in housing benefits.
You'll also receive £7,644 in income. (tax free).
Total: £18,544
Just 3k less than the nurse. On the flip side, you have an extra 15 hours a week of your own time.
Put it another way, and that nurse will work an extra 700 hours over the year to be just £3k better off than someone working in a shop on minimum wage.
(You'd need one child for the above to work, mind...though if you have 2, the income will simply be greater). The nurse in this case would also get some tax credits, but will also be paying tax in the first place (and possibly a loans from student days), more possible childcare for all those extra hours, so swings and roundabouts.
The benefit system masks huge issues. It also makes many jobs (and the training and unsociablity of them) pretty pointless if you are of that frame of mind. And many are.
Five or ten years on though both the nurse and the shop worker may still have their same jobs, but the nurse at least has a chance to go a few bands higher and might have even doubled their pay. The shop worker is unlikely to have such a chance.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Oh, and another stat which doesn't seem to chime with the recovery being good for the lower paid..... unsecured credit.
It's just passed it's 2007 peak again.
Now, some may suggest this is sign that people are feeling more secure. Ineed, that is exactly what happened when an economist opened his mouth!
However, the actual credit figures themselves show that the credit is being used increasingly for everyday expenses such as utility bills and food shopping. So what does it really say? People feel more secure and ready to splash out? Or people are finding they need to pay their bills with credit?
Usually the first few months after Christmas are pretty tight, so maybe people are having to put a few grocery shops onto their credit cards, just to keep some cash by for things that can't be paid that way, like the mortgage/rent. People just end up juggling a whole lot of balls in the air and hoping like hell they don't drop any.
I'm not sure I think personal unsecured debt being on the rise again is anything to celebrate.0 -
Usually the first few months after Christmas are pretty tight, so maybe people are having to put a few grocery shops onto their credit cards, just to keep some cash by for things that can't be paid that way, like the mortgage/rent. People just end up juggling a whole lot of balls in the air and hoping like hell they don't drop any.
I'm not sure I think personal unsecured debt being on the rise again is anything to celebrate.
I'd agree. But this data isn't just looking at the first few months so can't really be explained by that. Every month personal debt levels increase. They did fall, but were back to peak again now, having just past it last month (according to 5 live).0 -
Five or ten years on though both the nurse and the shop worker may still have their same jobs, but the nurse at least has a chance to go a few bands higher and might have even doubled their pay. The shop worker is unlikely to have such a chance.
Nurses receive incremental increases for 10 years within each grading band. That's on top of any inflationary rise. So even with 1% inflation rise there real pay is rising nearer 3%-4% per annum.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »
Goes back to a TV programme on a few weeks ago looking at high rises in India. The indian plasterer was amazed that he could earn 150 times more for a days work in England. However, his sole wage was feeding and housing his family in India. Would a plasterers sole wage feed and house a family with 5 kids and a wife here?
Probably not.
If the standard of food and housing in UK was as low as that in India, then yes he could feed and house his family in UK.
With change.
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I fear that food banks are becoming one of the biggest political weapons. Labour want it this way.
When anything is given away free, who on earth is going to refuse?
Just imagine that surplus theatre or cinima seats were given away (strictly to pensioners) in Loughton Library, then I'd be along there like a shot. Despite the fact that I could easily afford a box at any show in the West End whenever I want!
There is one thing (and one thing only) that would truly convince doubters like me. But it will never be revealed.
All it would take is to select potential users (truly at random) of the food banks, and write down their full and truthful circumstances, income and expenditure. It can be totally anonymous as long as they are real cases.
Then we would need to ask what degree of sympathy we had for these individuals. We would see the never-ending cycle of refusing to work, refusing adequate housing, reckless spending on beer, fags and bingo. Total mishandling of money, with unnecessary and highly expensive debt.
They will never do this, because they know as well as we do that the figures would show only the extreme forms of recklessness, poor choices, waste, and generally self-inflicted woe.
People learn either by understanding what they are told/taught, or by recognising the outcomes of their own actions (i.e. teaching or experience). When the outcome of self-inflicted poverty results in free food, then perversely, the hardship doesn't result, so the lesson is unlearned.
I give a lot to charity, but I avoid anything to do with "the poor" in UK like the plague.0
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