Who will win the UK election ?

Moby

I see that scourge of the liberal elite Rod Liddle is also coming to his senses:-
http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9500072/call-me-insane-but-im-voting-labour/

antrobus

Moby wrote: »

I'm not repeating it mate, scroll back.

It's simply that I fail to see what your 'main pont' consists of. Yes, you have contributed a romaticised hearsay account of your valley childhood, but other than that, I see no point that needs to be addressed, and certainly nothing that pertains to the subject matter of this thread.

ukcarper

Cyberman60 wrote: »

The mining unions certainly didn't. They actually helped to kill the jobs by being greedy and making themselves uncompetitive.

It can be argued that the UK motor industries and shipbuilding have failed for similar reasons. British Leyland.... Oh Dear !! :eek:

Lot more to demise of mining in this country than miners wages.


Nothing to do with lack of investment funny how the Japanese companies can work with those same trade unions and be profitable.

Moby

antrobus wrote: »

It's simply that I fail to see what your 'main pont' consists of. Yes, you have contributed a romaticised hearsay account of your valley childhood, but other than that, I see no point that needs to be addressed, and certainly nothing that pertains to the subject matter of this thread.

Ok.....so you are saying my experiences and the experiences of those around me were 'romanticised'? So if we cannot achieve common ground for debate I agree there is no point that needs to be addressed.

padington

i love a good wind up thread like the best of them but I'm beginning to think some resident right wingers are loosing their marbles on this thread. Of course the trade union movement furthered the conditions of the poor more and the Tories furthered the conditions of establishment more.

Any more talk otherwise is just pure loony tunes nonsense.

Yes there are many examples of when the establishment succumbed to demands made by minority groups, that has nothing to do with the fact that it was grass roots movements which pushed to secure rights that were otherwise denied to them by establishment players for years previous and many of these victories made this country a much better place than it was before.

Cyberman60

ukcarper wrote: »

Lot more to demise of mining in this country than miners wages.


Nothing to do with lack of investment funny how the Japanese companies can work with those same trade unions and be profitable.

Constant strikes killed them more than anything. Unions today are pretty much an anachronism as striking is never really the answer. I went through my whole working life without striking, simply moving jobs if unhappy or to progress, and more often than not for better pay etc.

The railways/tube have fantastic pay and conditions compared to other industries but we are guaranteed a strike virtually every year, which cause enormous disruption to innocent consumers who pay their wages.

They are dinosaurs, constantly standing in the way of technological progress, such as automated systems (eg: driverless trains) which would give the public a safer, cheaper and more efficient service.

Cyberman60

padington wrote: »

i love a good wind up thread like the best of them but I'm beginning to think some resident right wingers are loosing their marbles on this thread. Of course the trade union movement furthered the conditions of the poor more and the Tories furthered the conditions of establishment more.

Any more talk otherwise is just pure loony tunes nonsense.

Yes there are many examples of when the establishment succumbed to demands made by minority groups, that has nothing to do with the fact that it was grass roots movements which pushed to secure rights that were otherwise denied to them by establishment players for years previous and many of these victories made this country a much better place than it was before.

Yes, they improved conditions in their day, but they got greedy on power in the 60s and 70s and started to take advantage. That's when Mrs Thatcher came along and thankfully killed off secondary picketing, open ballots and the intimidation of people that simply wanted to work for a living for the good of themselves and UK PLC rather than be involved in politically motivated strikes. :T

ukcarper

Cyberman60 wrote: »

Constant strikes killed them more than anything. Unions today are pretty much an anachronism as striking is never really the answer. I went through my whole working life without striking, simply moving jobs if unhappy or to progress, and more often than not for better pay etc.

The railways/tube have fantastic pay and conditions compared to other industries but we are guaranteed a strike virtually every year, which cause enormous disruption to innocent consumers who pay their wages.

They are dinosaurs, constantly standing in the way of technological progress, such as automated systems (eg: driverless trains) which would give the public a safer, cheaper and more efficient service.

It's possible to find odd unions that are dinosaurs but I worked in an old nationalised industry and the union cooperated with all the modernisation which resulting in the loss of many jobs.

Cyberman60

ukcarper wrote: »

It's possible to find odd unions that are dinosaurs but I worked in an old nationalised industry and the union cooperated with all the modernisation which resulting in the loss of many jobs.

Progress unfortunately means that jobs are lost in some areas, but there is an upside in other areas. We should not be saving jobs just to defer progress.

For instance there was no computer industry of any note until the 70s, and now it's massive. I moved from being degree qualified in banking to taking a training course and qualifying in the computer industry in the late 70s, and went on to run my own company. No doubt if I'd continued with branch banking my job would no longer exist. I jumped before that happened.

ukcarper

Cyberman60 wrote: »

Progress unfortunately means that jobs are lost in some areas, but there is an upside in other areas. We should not be saving jobs just to defer progress.

For instance there was no computer industry of any note until the 70s, and now it's massive. I moved from being degree qualified in banking to taking a training course and qualifying in the computer industry in the late 70s, and went on to run my own company. No doubt if I'd continued with branch banking my job would no longer exist. I jumped before that happened.

In many cases the unions knew this and cooperated sharing some of the rewards of lower wage costs with remaining workers.