Neighbour Boundary Gate and Ownership Dispute

lois2409

Hi
Hope you can give me your thoughts and advice on a neighbourly dispute over ownership of a boundary gate that opens on to our land?

My neighbour is a former land agent as is obsessed with ownership of his land. He owns a straight drive from the main road to our residential home and a 4 acre paddock that we own. We have right of way over the drive by vehicle or foot to access our paddock and house. At the end of the drive there is a large timber farm gate that opens on to our paddock with a stile next to it. The gate is clearly the boundary of where his drive finishes and our paddock starts with the gate separating the two. We purchased the property 14 years ago and the gate was already there. We do not have a good relationship with our neighbour due to previous problems over ownership of land so approaching him is out of the question! However I have just asked my gardener to paint our garden fence and the gate that opens into our field as we have regularly maintained the gate during the 14 years we have lived here always believing it was ours as it opens onto our field. Since our fall out with the neighbours a couple of years ago, we have today received quite an abrupt email saying that he can’t believe we have painted his ‘Driveway Gate’ as he puts it without requesting his consent and we are to arrange to put it back to it’s former condition asap! He clearly believes the gate belongs to him, and if I’m honest I do not know who the gate belongs to other than, it opens on to our land, we have maintained it over the years and having looked at the position of the gate, it appears that it is actually more on our paddock than his drive due to the gate posts being fitted on the back of our fence line so it appears to me that the gate is on our land. We have not painted the fence some bright ridiculous colour but a deep forest green that actually compliments the area we live. I have checked the deeds and the only thing I can see is that the neighbour does have a right of way through the gate on to our paddock to gain access to another entrance to his land but this has never been used since we have lived here. Can anyone please advise how I can find out who actually owns the gate and / or whether the fact that it opens on to our land proves ownership to us. The gate was clearly erected before we bought the property and could well have been fitted by the neighbour. If this is the case, can he erect a gate (if he has) that opens on to our land and in my opinion sits within our boundary? If the gate is proven to belong to the neighbour, can we then enforce him to have it changed so it opens onto his drive as opposed to our land? Your advice and thoughts would be really appreciated.
Thanks

stator

lois2409 wrote: »

My neighbour is a former land agent as is obsessed with ownership of his land. He owns a straight drive from the main road to our residential home and a 4 acre paddock that we own. We have right of way over the drive by either vehicle or foot to access our paddock and house. At the end of the drive there is a large timber farm gate that opens on to our paddock with a stile next to it. The gate is clearly the boundary of where his drive finishes and our paddock starts with the gate separating the two. We do not have a particularly good relationship with our neighbour due to previous problems over ownership of land, however I have just asked my gardener to paint our garden fence and the gate that opens into our field as we have regularly stained the gate during the 14 years we have lived here and the neighbour has never said anything to us. However, today we have received quite an abrupt email saying that he can’t believe we have painted his ‘Driveway Gate’ as he puts it without requesting his consent and we are to arrange to put it back to it’s former condition asap! He clearly believes the gate belongs to him, and if I’m honest I do not know who the gate belongs to other than, it opens on to our land, we have stained it over the years and having looked at the position of the gate, it appears that it is actually more on our paddock than his drive due to the gate posts being fitted on the back of our fence line so it appears to me that the gate is just on our land. We have not painted the fence some bright ridiculous colour but a deep forest green that actually compliments the area we live. I have checked the deeds and the only thing I can see is that the neighbour does have a right of way through the gate on to our paddock to gain access to another entrance to his land but this has never been used since we have lived here. Can anyone please advise how I can find out who actually owns the gate and / or whether the fact that it opens on to our land proves ownership to us. The gate was clearly erected before we bought the property and could well have been fitted by the neighbour. If this is the case, can he erect a gate (if he has) that opens on to our land and in my opinion sits within our boundary? If the gate is proven to belong to the neighbour, can we then enforce him to have it changed so it opens onto his drive as opposed to our land? Your advise and thoughts would be really appreciated.

There are two questions relevant:
A) Who owns the timber that makes up the gate. The answer is whoever purchased the timber and put it there
Who owns the land on which the timber stands. This is completely separate. You can own the land and he can own the timber or visa-versa.

Ask your neighbour to prove who exactly erected the gate. If he can't prove he owns it then there's nothing to stop you painting it.
If he can prove he owns the land on which it stands then he can remove the gate at his own will. But unless the boundary has ever been precisely defined he won't be able to do this either.

princeofpounds

You will get more responses if you divide your question into proper paragraphs.

Ownership of gates and fences is not necesarily determined by whose land they sit on.

That may be a factor in the absence of other information, but for instance if I put a fence up in your garden tomorrow, they are still my fence panels.

Suggest you try your question on gardenlaw forums as well.

Doozergirl

What an idiot.

I'd just ignore him. If he wants to spend a fortune on legal fees because you painted a fence, let him. What's the worst that can happen?

I really don't think anyone can claim the gate, really. You've maintained it, which is nice, but a boundary line less than a millimetre thick on paper is going to be a metre wide on the ground. If the gate is set back slightly, it might hint at being yours, only because it is on your land, but you can't prove it conclusively. People talk of boundaries to maintain but that doesn't show ownership of an item.

The guy is clearly an idiot. What's he going to do, really? If you don't talk, then it's not going to make huge difference. Don't engage him.

G_M

You cannot deduce ownership from either where it is or how it opens.

However, if it is on your land, and is not yours, you can require its removal.

If it is not on your land but opens onto your land, then the act of opening it would, arguably, constitute a trespass over your land.

Given your description of where it is, either:

* the gate is yours, and you can paint it as you wish or
* the gate is his, and you canrequire he remove it. You could then replace it with your own, and paint it.

Having said that, I suspect attempting to discuss this, or negotiate/impose a solution will simply escalate a bad situation, so my advice is to either

* repaint the gate the colour he wants, and attempt to rebuild the relationship or
* do nothing. Don't respond. Await developments......

lois2409

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I agree the man is indeed an idiot and clearly has nothing better to do! I have registered for the garden law site and I will then reword my problem and break it down and post on there. The deeds do not show any of those T marks as to who is responsible but I am assuming he did erect the fence many years ago before we bought the house. He is a former land agent so the fact that he is so adamant that the gate belongs to him, makes me wonder! What documentation or proof can he supply to prove the gate does belong to him and if I refuse to paint it back to the original colour, can he take legal action against me?

G_M

Well, he might have a receipt from the contractors he paid to install it.

If it IS his gate, you have indeed damaged it, and he could make a claim in court for the cost of reparation (ie a contractor to re-paint it).

However, if it is on your land, you can ask him to remove it or remove it yourself (but not 'steal' it - you must leave it for him).

lois2409

If it is his gate and he did erect it on our land is there a timeframe whereby he can say it has been there over 20 years and therefore we would then have to accept it is on our land?

DRP

When you say you've maintained it for 14 years , what do you mean?

Presumably you've not painted it previously ?


I'd ignore him to be honest ...

lois2409

Yes, we have stained the gate during the time we have lived here. But today we have painted it a dark green colour and the neighbour has put in his email that he does not like the colour and now states that the gate is his! If he did erect it years ago and does belong to him yet we have maintained it, can he now just make us take the colour back to what it was? If he can't prove it is his, what can he do about it?

stator

lois2409 wrote: »

If it is his gate and he did erect it on our land is there a timeframe whereby he can say it has been there over 20 years and therefore we would then have to accept it is on our land?

No but he might possibly claim adverse possession and claim the land now belongs to him. I don't know if that applies to a boundary or not but 20 years is enough time.